Game Programming in 2012?

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#1 syndrome92  Icon User is offline

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Game Programming in 2012?

Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:45 AM

First of all, hi to everyone! I'm kinda new here and i have a few inquiries that i hope can be answered.

Second, I'm not that new to game programming as I have programmed one or two games in XNA as a semester project and was amazed at how fast and easy XNA truly was. Still, I'm not a professional. With the release of Windows 8, I surfed around the net, browsing from forum to forum just so I can know where XNA is headed. Most forums claim that "you can't develop games 'native' to the Windows 8 OS, although there is a workaround to it by installing XNA4.0, but it would still be 'legacy code'. You can still develop games for Windows Phones 7 and 8 as well as Xbox360 with XNA."

Third, I like to develop games for PC, Xbox360 and PS3 (ESPECIALLY Playstation 3).

So my questions are:-

1. Should i still pursue game development using XNA, considering the above facts? As i said, I really liked XNA a lot and would really prefer it.

2. If, in the case that XNA doesn't flourish, what will be my next best alternative? Most people refer the combination of OpenGL/C++ as the next best alternative to game development to me. I have done VERY basic programming in OpenGL (e.g. drawing a triangle on the screen) and let me just say that, honestly, XNA/C# has spoilt me considerably. :D/> Whenever I look at opengl/c++ code, it all seems overwhelming now... But I'm willing to learn anything that's new to me and most of all, a VERY good option in the long run. So, any advice?

3. There is also an option of using already-made game engines, too. Game engines like Unity3d and UDK (based on Unreal Engine 3) seem to be very good players but are very costly. What's more, they already have the option of releasing your games on multiple platforms, but apart from UDK, I see that Unity3d only allows games for PSN and Xbox LIVE. I wanna make games for the PS3 platform! Opinions, please?

I already know that in order to develop games for PS3 (or any other console), you have to first become a "certified" developer in the eyes of Sony; only then they can sell you their development kits. How much they cost is another story, but my main concern is to get ready for what seem to be best option for me to develop games when I can afford a PS3 development kit.

Thanks in advance...! :)/>

P.S: I'm doing my undergraduate program in computer science and I also like 3d modelling and animation. So, I have a fair amount of "experience" in creating programs using C, C++ and C#. Apart from that, like i said, I'm willing to learn anything that's best for me in the long run...!

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#2 anonymous26  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game Programming in 2012?

Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:11 PM

Something to get straight here, using PS3 as an example:

1. Sony do not allow anyone to develop for Playstation. There are a variety of reasons for this including, but not limited to, adherence to platform certification standards, and non-disclosure regarding platform capabilities.

2. You will have to be working for a game studio to get to even touch a PS3 dev kit.

3. Programming on certain dev kits is a whole new challenge on top of the challenges presented by writing games anyway.

I'm ex-Sony and am more than aware of their exceptionally high standards which you will not meet as an individual. Also, there is no chance that you can even begin to think about raising the dev kit license fee.

Learn how to properly make games first on PC or whatever.
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#3 no2pencil  Icon User is online

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Re: Game Programming in 2012?

Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:19 PM

View PostButchDean, on 21 November 2012 - 02:11 PM, said:

2. You will have to be working for a game studio to get to even touch a PS3 dev kit.

Back in my 'dreaming days' of game development, I contacted Nintendo about a GBA game I was working on. They have simple (& publicly posted) restrictions for applying for a developers license.

Basically they want you to prove that you are (as in your company, not you as an individual) are experienced in producing a quality, bug free product.
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#4 anonymous26  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game Programming in 2012?

Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:52 PM

Yeah, but there is a lot of detail in creating 'quality' and 'bug free' products. For instance your game must pass their, and not your, quality assurance standards in order to be certified for the platform. There are guidelines that must be met - both very strict and general ones.
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#5 Leadwerks  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game Programming in 2012?

Posted 21 November 2012 - 02:01 PM

1. XNA pursuit: I learned game programming through XNA for a few class projects and it is a great learning experience but I've found that it is not relevant in the industry. Experience with major engines are much more preferable (and I'm not just saying that because we are a game engine developer...).

If you look at this job posting you can see that they're looking for c++ skills and experience with the unreal engine.

2. C++ and OpenGL are the industry standard, learn them. I suggest taking a graphics course at your college, it's the easiest way to learn.

3. Making games for the PS3 console is tricky and requires a developer kit. Certain colleges have access to them (I know for sure UC Santa Cruz has one), if your college does not have access to one you would have to become creative to get access to one (possibly intern at a development studio that has one).
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#6 aaron1178  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game Programming in 2012?

Posted 21 November 2012 - 02:51 PM

View PostLeadwerks, on 22 November 2012 - 07:01 AM, said:

2. C++ and OpenGL are the industry standard, learn them. I suggest taking a graphics course at your college, it's the easiest way to learn.


That's really a matter of choice, as we all know C++ and DirectX is the industry standard.
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#7 anonymous26  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game Programming in 2012?

Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:04 PM

Okay guys, the only thing that is an industry standard is C++, and nowadays even that comment is debatable. With the influx of platforms like Apple's iOS devices that support Objective-C, and tools like Unity that make use of C#, the industry standards are certainly getting blurry.

Look at it this way, if you get to work in games you are expected to thoroughly know C++ and be able to code effectively in a variety of other languages.
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#8 TheGDeveloper  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game Programming in 2012?

Posted 21 November 2012 - 05:08 PM

unity 3d is free. You pay only for the license to publish on iphone and android
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#9 syndrome92  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game Programming in 2012?

Posted 22 November 2012 - 01:41 AM

Thanks for all your replies...!

Quote

Something to get straight here, using PS3 as an example:

1. Sony do not allow anyone to develop for Playstation. There are a variety of reasons for this including, but not limited to, adherence to platform certification standards, and non-disclosure regarding platform capabilities.

2. You will have to be working for a game studio to get to even touch a PS3 dev kit.

3. Programming on certain dev kits is a whole new challenge on top of the challenges presented by writing games anyway.

I'm ex-Sony and am more than aware of their exceptionally high standards which you will not meet as an individual. Also, there is no chance that you can even begin to think about raising the dev kit license fee.

Learn how to properly make games first on PC or whatever.


Let's just imagine, for the sake of convenience, that I already have passed their "quality standards" (though i really haven't :D/>/>/>/> ) but let's just imagine that I have... What next? Which language? Which Game Engine? Should I make one myself? What?


Quote

XNA pursuit: I learned game programming through XNA for a few class projects and it is a great learning experience but I've found that it is not relevant in the industry. Experience with major engines are much more preferable (and I'm not just saying that because we are a game engine developer...).

Can you please elaborate?

Quote

Okay guys, the only thing that is an industry standard is C++, and nowadays even that comment is debatable. With the influx of platforms like Apple's iOS devices that support Objective-C, and tools like Unity that make use of C#, the industry standards are certainly getting blurry.

Look at it this way, if you get to work in games you are expected to thoroughly know C++ and be able to code effectively in a variety of other languages.

You read my mind! That's one of the main debates that are going inside my head! iPhone uses Objective-C, Android uses Java and Windows Phone uses the combination of XNA/C#! Can't people be just content with only one programming language? :P/>/>/> Most people suggest C++/OpenGL, but they must use some tools other than these two... For example, "game programming in windows" is done by calling the proper win32 handler functions and making OpenGL display its graphics in the "registered" window (that's just the shortened version :P/>)

Quote

unity 3d is free. You pay only for the license to publish on iphone and android

But I thought you can buy their license for releasing games on consoles also...!

Again, thanks for all your replies! :)/>/>
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#10 anonymous26  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game Programming in 2012?

Posted 22 November 2012 - 01:03 PM

View Postsyndrome92, on 22 November 2012 - 08:41 AM, said:

Let's just imagine, for the sake of convenience, that I already have passed their "quality standards" (though i really haven't :D/>/>/>/>/> ) but let's just imagine that I have... What next?

You won't.
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#11 syndrome92  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game Programming in 2012?

Posted 23 November 2012 - 02:26 AM

View PostButchDean, on 22 November 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

View Postsyndrome92, on 22 November 2012 - 08:41 AM, said:

Let's just imagine, for the sake of convenience, that I already have passed their "quality standards" (though i really haven't :D/>/>/>/>/>/>/>/> ) but let's just imagine that I have... What next?

You won't.


Wowee! That's a very determined answer. Thanks for the answer, though.
If you don't mind, can you please tell me as to what was your position in Sony? And also tell me how you got a job with Sony? If that's okay with you...!
Again, thanks for the answer... Seems I really have to focus on making games rather than worry about making games for the PS3...!
Thanks again...!
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#12 anonymous26  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game Programming in 2012?

Posted 23 November 2012 - 07:55 AM

I was a software engineer with them. I got the job how you pretty much get any job - I studied when I was a student and practiced my skills in my own time, applied, got invited for interview and did great. And I blew away their programming test. One great thing with Sony is that even after you leave you can go back if you wish and there is a vacancy for you.

Yes, focus on making games. If you want to be a PS3 programmer I can't see any other way of you getting the job without studying hard and knowing your stuff.

Good luck. :)
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#13 syndrome92  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game Programming in 2012?

Posted 24 November 2012 - 01:18 AM

View PostButchDean, on 23 November 2012 - 07:55 AM, said:

I was a software engineer with them. I got the job how you pretty much get any job - I studied when I was a student and practiced my skills in my own time, applied, got invited for interview and did great. And I blew away their programming test. One great thing with Sony is that even after you leave you can go back if you wish and there is a vacancy for you.

Yes, focus on making games. If you want to be a PS3 programmer I can't see any other way of you getting the job without studying hard and knowing your stuff.

Good luck. :)/>/>


Thanks a lot for the wonderful replies... Really! :)/>
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#14 syndrome92  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game Programming in 2012?

Posted 24 November 2012 - 03:53 AM

View PostButchDean, on 23 November 2012 - 07:55 AM, said:

If you want to be a PS3 programmer I can't see any other way of you getting the job without studying hard and knowing your stuff.


Just one last thing...
Can you please elaborate the above statement? Like (and this may sound a bit amateur of me) what does 'studying hard and knowing your stuff' exactly mean? I'm asking in terms of what specific topics are you talking about, or are you just saying in general terms...?
Again thanks! :)/>
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#15 anonymous26  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game Programming in 2012?

Posted 24 November 2012 - 08:22 AM

View Postsyndrome92, on 24 November 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

View PostButchDean, on 23 November 2012 - 07:55 AM, said:

If you want to be a PS3 programmer I can't see any other way of you getting the job without studying hard and knowing your stuff.


Just one last thing...
Can you please elaborate the above statement? Like (and this may sound a bit amateur of me) what does 'studying hard and knowing your stuff' exactly mean? I'm asking in terms of what specific topics are you talking about, or are you just saying in general terms...?
Again thanks! :)/>/>

Well, think about it. If you want to work on PS3 you're going to be working on games, or tech relating to making games, so learn how to make games well!

Once you learn find your niche (be it graphics, AI or whatever) and learn even more. Also stat up-to-date.
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