[MadPlumber]

I have been recently hired by a newly-started PC repair business as a programmer. The owner's ambition is to create a three-dimensional game promoting his store and allowing users to browse around his virtual store and converse. He wanted to use DarkBASIC to perform this task. I've not used DarkBASIC before, but I assured him that it would not be beyond me to learn it and tackle his problem (despite I think he should slow down with his ambitions as I've never wrote a three-dimensional game before and a really complex game will consume time).

Well, DarkBASIC certainly permits me to quickly get into a three-dimensional view without much hassle. Nevertheless, I am not liking the language very much. Being a BASIC derative, it features no object-oriented programming abilities and seems as undisciplined as BASIC was for my old Apple IIe. Furthermore, there doesn't seem to be a command to "blit" the camera view. Anytime I change the perspective or alter the geometry, the camera updates. I don't know how to tell the program when I want to update the camera and how often I want to update it.

I would really prefer to write the program in Visual C++, anyway. If it is possible to use DarkBASIC tools from VC++, that would be immensely helpful. That way I could write objects and engines much like the way I like to write them.

I certainly would like hearing from those with advice and experience. Thank you for visiting.

This post has been edited by skyhawk133: 09 July 2007 - 06:31 PM

[William_Wilson]

ugh, i am not familiar with dark basic, but i have coded in both Basic and Quick Basic, so i understand your woes with the language style. Perhaps you can convince the owner to allow you to use VC++ as the exe should be just as versatile as anything in dark basic

[Trogdor]

perhaps a dedicated 3d game toolkit would be better suited ?

[m2s87]

You might suggest using http://secondlife.com/ . So people can browse the shop over internet.

Anyhow making a 3D game with darkbasic 3d gamemaker is not all that hard. You can probably even make the game without knowing how to program in darkbasic.

[MadPlumber]

William_Wilson, on 8 Jul, 2007 - 07:07 PM, said:

Perhaps you can convince the owner to allow you to use VC++ as the exe should be just as versatile as anything in dark basic

I have mentioned to my boss that I would have preferred to write out my programs with a C++ compiler, but he seems to be married to the DarkBASIC program. There is no point in worrying about it anyway as I can tell the business is destined to go the way of the dodo, so I'll just get by with what I got until it's time to jump ship.

I had done a little looking and discovered what was called a Dark GDK in case I wanted to use the engine's tools from a C++ compiler. It is a point of small interest for myself, but right now I'm trying to contend with using Allegro in my latest personal project.

Trogdor, on 9 Jul, 2007 - 08:31 AM, said:

perhaps a dedicated 3d game toolkit would be better suited ?

I believe that DarkBASIC IS a dedicated 3D game toolkit. My grievance is against the coding structure. Lacking the ability to make objects and encapsulate processes makes for a very poorly-structured code.

The Game Creators, the company behind DarkBASIC, have also developed a three-dimensional modeling program called AC3D that my boss also bought; the program resembles a vastly-stripped-down version of Alias Maya and is designed for the purpose of making models for games.

m2s87, on 10 Jul, 2007 - 06:02 AM, said:

You might suggest using http://secondlife.com/ . So people can browse the shop over internet.

Anyhow making a 3D game with darkbasic 3d gamemaker is not all that hard. You can probably even make the game without knowing how to program in darkbasic.

If the subject comes up again, I can bring up Second Life. However, like I said before, there is no point in fretting about this as it is beyond my power to help this guy.

Yes, DarkBASIC is very simplistic that it seems almost anyone can make a game using the language. However, my boss has very complicated aspirations and it seems he wants me squeeze blood from a stone and produce these wild ideas using DarkBASIC. I would say DarkBASIC is fine if you want to make a game with the complexity of an Atari 2600 game. MODERN GAMES, however, are far more complicated, featuring splash screens, title screens, option menus, multiple stages, character physics, complex enemy AIs, cut scenes, credit rolls, cinematics, vast soundtracks, and so much more. The structure of the DarkBASIC language is not fit for such grand schemes (in my opinion).

load bitmap "Image_56.bmp",3
set current bitmap 2
print "This is a line of text."
copy bitmap 1,0

This is pretty simplistic and understandable. You probably don't need a lick of computer training to know what's going on. However, simplication of a language can never simplify the task of game programming, which many of you probably agree is one of the most convoluted, intense, unholy sciences in the programming realm. DarkBASIC does not feature object-oriented programming, which I feel is ESSENTIAL in the task of making the convoluted games of today. I consider it bad form to have everything in your main() function. There needs to be delegation, separation, and encapsulation. Having everything out in the open is only asking for trouble.

Anyway, thank you all for your feedback. It was most appreciated.

This post has been edited by MadPlumber: 14 July 2007 - 06:55 PM

[serializer]

I would probably recommend the Microsoft XNA Game Studio - it's free which your boss should appreciate, and works with VC# so full object-oriented architecture is not only possible but required. Additionally, the API simplifies 3D programming probably about as much as DarkBASIC does (I once tried DB several years ago so I fully agree with your grievances!) whilst still retaining access to low-level functions of DirectX and your graphics card. It can also produce games that will work on both Windows AND Xbox 360 which obviously gives your boss a wider target market...

I realise this is a moot point since it sounds like he's not changing his mind, however I find it's always useful to know what you might have said in the first place, had you been armed with different knowledge!

--serializer

[MadPlumber]

serializer, on 16 Jul, 2007 - 06:03 AM, said:

I would probably recommend the Microsoft XNA Game Studio...

Microsoft XNA was something my CIS professor mentioned to me sometime ago (and I can never seem to remember the abbreviation). It is of small interest to myself, since I would most ideally want to write games that can be played on gaming consoles. My hesitancy to bother looking at it for right now is the fact that I do not own, am not interested in owning, and do not personally know anyone that owns an X-Box 360. Still, it is a high point of interest. I should give it a lookover and maybe I can rent an X-Box to test an output product.

[Trogdor]

If your disinterest in xbox consoles is so big (like mine) for what console(s) do you want to write?
Are there no toolkits for them?

[Monkeyboy_1985]

MadPlumber, on 7 Jul, 2007 - 10:27 PM, said:

Furthermore, there doesn't seem to be a command to "blit" the camera view. Anytime I change the perspective or alter the geometry, the camera updates. I don't know how to tell the program when I want to update the camera and how often I want to update it.

You need to add

sync on
sync rate 60

The 60 is the frame rate so make it whatever you want.
Then in your code you need to just put the code

sync

whenever you want to update the camera.

Also are you using DarkBASIC or DarkBASIC pro?

Monkey Boy

[MadPlumber]

Trogdor, on 18 Jul, 2007 - 06:09 AM, said:

If your disinterest in xbox consoles is so big (like mine) for what console(s) do you want to write?
Are there no toolkits for them?

Well, this is sort of getting off-topic, but I'll try to make it brief. I am not interested in spending exorbitant amounts of cash for another game system with little or no software I care to play. Some people think gaming is all about the hardware; my favorite system is the NES because of the size of its software library and of how many of those titles I actually like. XBox titles tend to fall mostly in the M-rated realm, and though I'm not a prudish person, excessively violent video games do not tickle my fancy. Since I own a PlayStation 2 and its titles tend to be in a moderate range, I wouldn't mind if there was a way I could write games for that machine.

Monkeyboy_1985, on 18 Jul, 2007 - 12:05 PM, said:

Also are you using DarkBASIC or DarkBASIC pro?

Thank you for posting that code regarding the synchronization. I had figured it out some time ago; I felt it kind of odd that its tutorial was hidden under the BASIC commands index.

Regular DarkBASIC is being used at work. I personally bought a book that teaches DarkBASIC Pro, so I kind of have an idea of what more Pro offers than the standard package. Still, I'm not a fan of the language and I would probably prefer the GDK package so that I could write in C++.

[shadedarkan]

With DarkBasicPro, which I have been using since its initial release, you have to use the sync command to manually update the camera. Otherwise, the engine will update the view as fast as the system it is running on can handle. I do find that I can do a lot of work in a little time with the language (given its bugs here and there). The least I can say is that the language is MUCH more stable than when it first came out. Not as stable as other, older, languages such as 3D Blitz, etc. Patches for DarkBasic are released fairly regularly and the syntax and commands are updated in most of them to reflect commercial trends and standards.
The best place to get help with DarkBasicPro is in the forums at DarkBasicPro.com. The site has many tutorials which are much more detailed and helpful than the documentation that came with the software (the initial book I recieved when I bought the program over 4 years ago is completeing worthless since all the syntax and function changes).
There does seem to be a way to OOP in DarkBasic. I have just learned to create classes in C++ so I never used any of this in my DarkBasic programs (I didn't know classes existed back then). But, DarkBasic has the ability to include files either in the programming or through the project menu on the right side of the screen. I have yet to test this.
Hope this helps.

[Tom9729]

I don't think you were being serious, but everything doesn't "have to be in the main method".

Delegation, separation, all of it is just as possible in procedural programming as it is in object oriented programming.

I think the real problem is that you just don't like BASIC, and I don't blame you, but don't try to paint all procedural languages with the same brush.

[MorphiusFaydal]

shadedarkan, on 28 Feb, 2008 - 07:12 PM, said:

There does seem to be a way to OOP in DarkBasic. I have just learned to create classes in C++ so I never used any of this in my DarkBasic programs (I didn't know classes existed back then). But, DarkBasic has the ability to include files either in the programming or through the project menu on the right side of the screen. I have yet to test this.
Hope this helps.

Multiple source files does not equal object oriented programming.

[runewake2]

Tom9729, on 28 Feb, 2008 - 07:04 PM, said:

I don't think you were being serious, but everything doesn't "have to be in the main method".

Delegation, separation, all of it is just as possible in procedural programming as it is in object oriented programming.

I think the real problem is that you just don't like BASIC, and I don't blame you, but don't try to paint all procedural languages with the same brush.

I have palyed with DB for some time, but never really got used to it but if you don't want it to update this should work.

autocam off

It was programmed to recenter the camaera around every new object this turns that feture off... I think.

[Tom9729]

runewake2, on 29 Feb, 2008 - 08:26 AM, said:

Tom9729, on 28 Feb, 2008 - 07:04 PM, said:

I don't think you were being serious, but everything doesn't "have to be in the main method".

Delegation, separation, all of it is just as possible in procedural programming as it is in object oriented programming.

I think the real problem is that you just don't like BASIC, and I don't blame you, but don't try to paint all procedural languages with the same brush.

I have palyed with DB for some time, but never really got used to it but if you don't want it to update this should work.

autocam off

It was programmed to recenter the camaera around every new object this turns that feture off... I think.