I need advice from you guys

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30 Replies - 3733 Views - Last Post: 27 December 2012 - 08:01 AM

#16 RozenKristal  Icon User is offline

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Re: I need advice from you guys

Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:13 PM

No problem :)
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#17 stackoverflow  Icon User is offline

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Re: I need advice from you guys

Posted 15 December 2012 - 11:38 PM

No one cares about a GPA.
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#18 Lemur  Icon User is online

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Re: I need advice from you guys

Posted 15 December 2012 - 11:38 PM

Here's the question. Why do you have that GPA? If you have that GPA because you've been just straight jacking around all the time and never do anything it will most certainly be the death of you. If you have that GPA because of all the hours of studying. open source, and freelance type ventures you've been doing then any employer worth their salt will scoff at the notion of GPA when presented with solid experience.

Take this scenario if you will, 2 students:

Student A

4.0 GPA
Honors
Knowledge of 2, maybe 3 programming languages
Strong abilities in 1 language
No prior experience

Student B

3.0 GPA
Open Source contributions
Freelance work
Articles written on programming
Multiple hours spend reading books and articles on modern tech
Knowledge of 20 programming languages, functional and OO
Strong abilities in 5 languages

------

Who would YOU hire? Student A didn't get the job because he had no idea how to function and step up outside a predefined problem given by a teacher.

Why is this? Student A was pristine as far as academics were concerned. That's nice, but if you can't put it to practical use and prove it you're no more than a programmed coding robot.

Student B spent all of their spare time poring into books, tutorials, and sharing knowledge because they loved what they do. They wanted to know everything about the field in which they were in, and never truly believed that studying enough for a 4.0 would ever be more important than that.

Now here's the fun part: I was Student B, and I'm doing just fine in the real world.

It comes down to one thing: do you know what you're doing or not?
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#19 RozenKristal  Icon User is offline

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Re: I need advice from you guys

Posted 15 December 2012 - 11:46 PM

I see what you mean. I would try to do some open source stuffs and read more, hopefully it would push my values and experience higher than my GPA.
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#20 modi123_1  Icon User is offline

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Re: I need advice from you guys

Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:16 AM

View Poststackoverflow, on 16 December 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

No one cares about a GPA.

That's patently wrong.. there are cases of employers caring about GPA. Stop being a goof on your posts.
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#21 Lemur  Icon User is online

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Re: I need advice from you guys

Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:02 AM

View Postmodi123_1, on 16 December 2012 - 03:16 AM, said:

View Poststackoverflow, on 16 December 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

No one cares about a GPA.

That's patently wrong.. there are cases of employers caring about GPA. Stop being a goof on your posts.


Now to clarify a bit. If you slack on GPA because you're lazy it will show. The ONLY reason I could partially get away with it is that I spend hundreds of hours training myself outside of school, and I still have a 3.0.
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#22 stackoverflow  Icon User is offline

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Re: I need advice from you guys

Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:47 PM

View Postmodi123_1, on 16 December 2012 - 09:16 AM, said:

View Poststackoverflow, on 16 December 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

No one cares about a GPA.

That's patently wrong.. there are cases of employers caring about GPA. Stop being a goof on your posts.


Yes, some people care about GPAs. None of which are employers you would want to work for. If an employer can't see past canned numbers and certificates and rate you based on potential ability and past performance they are not an employer you want to work for. GPAs are a guideline and if you're a good potential employee your GPA is meaningless. If all you have going for you is a GPA you've been doing something wrong.
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#23 no2pencil  Icon User is online

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Re: I need advice from you guys

Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:49 PM

No one ever cared about the 4.0 I carried from my crappy college :(

Back to you... however.

You are looking at this all wrong. The way you should be looking at it isn't what your grade reflects in your ability to land a job, but what it reflects in your ability to complete a job. Why couldn't you get the job done in school & on your assignments? How will you perform differently in the real work world? That's what you need to prepare yourself for, regardless if anyone asks it. Because that's what matters is if you can get the job done or not. That's why an employer is hiring you.

& if you can't do it, you can't do it. Regardless of what your gpa is or was.
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#24 modi123_1  Icon User is offline

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Re: I need advice from you guys

Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:54 PM

Quote

Yes, some people care about GPAs. None of which are employers you would want to work for. If an employer can't see past canned numbers and certificates and rate you based on potential ability and past performance they are not an employer you want to work for.

Riiiiiight.. because a green horn right out of school always have a ton of past performance that isn't related to school. Sure a few years into some real work experience and the need for a GPA disappears (outside of having the degree), but those first few jobs that is typically all they have to go on.
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#25 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is offline

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Re: I need advice from you guys

Posted 26 December 2012 - 03:22 PM

There may be hiring managers who look at GPAs. I don't know of any, and a few years ago, I was talking to a lot of them, and talking to them specifically about how they go about sizing up candidates.

Things that consistently came across as important to these people included:
  • concrete evidence of competence in the field - writing samples for a writer, code samples for a programmer
  • circumstantial evidence of employability - can you commit to a thing? Is there anything you've done for more than a few years, be it a job or a volunteer effort or whatever? If so, that suggests that people can stand to have you around, which is important
  • connections - if someone can get your resume to the top of the stack, it's more likely to be seen than if it's at the bottom.
  • references - if people you've worked for speak well of you, that's worth something



These are all things that a college student or recent graduate can get. If you have them, you're more likely to get an interview. Once you have the interview, it's up to you.

I see no reason to suppose that a GPA, on its own, is an interesting number to a hiring manager. However, some might see a low GPA as a bad sign, indicating, basically, a failure to do your job at school. That would probably hurt you- but they generally don't seem to ask for it, so it's on the "whatever" pile.
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#26 stackoverflow  Icon User is offline

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Re: I need advice from you guys

Posted 26 December 2012 - 08:15 PM

View Postmodi123_1, on 26 December 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

Quote

Yes, some people care about GPAs. None of which are employers you would want to work for. If an employer can't see past canned numbers and certificates and rate you based on potential ability and past performance they are not an employer you want to work for.

Riiiiiight.. because a green horn right out of school always have a ton of past performance that isn't related to school. Sure a few years into some real work experience and the need for a GPA disappears (outside of having the degree), but those first few jobs that is typically all they have to go on.


No one said anything about the green horn having work experience.

Did he/she complete side projects in their spare time? Does he/she give a damn enough about the field and craft of development enough to do anything outside the classroom? Did they join a club for developers at school? Did he/she do anything in the open source world? Do they have an online code repository? Did they join any coding forums? Do they follow the industry outside of the classroom?

All of those are much better indicators than a GPA in my opinion. I would hazard to say many hiring managers would feel the same. A GPA is "nice" if it's all you got, but if it's all you got there's a problem...

When I interview juniors I ask about a great deal of things and non of them involve a GPA. :)/>

Would you rather hire a green horn with a 4.0 GPA, or a green horn with a 2.8 GPA with 10 completed code projects outside of class, an online code repository with decent code (not great but decent), an active interest in development with a number of clubs and online presences?

This post has been edited by stackoverflow: 26 December 2012 - 08:22 PM

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#27 RozenKristal  Icon User is offline

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Re: I need advice from you guys

Posted 26 December 2012 - 08:21 PM

Gotta love you guys for the priceless information. I should start more side projects on my spare time and get more involve. I believe i have not done enough of those that stackoverflow just list. I did have an intern experience over the summer, it was great, though what I learned wasn't much about programming, but how real work look like, and how developers get things done. Sorry for my bad grammars.
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#28 macosxnerd101  Icon User is online

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Re: I need advice from you guys

Posted 26 December 2012 - 08:40 PM

Quote

Would you rather hire a green horn with a 4.0 GPA, or a green horn with a 2.8 GPA with 10 completed code projects outside of class, an online code repository with decent code (not great but decent), an active interest in development with a number of clubs and online presences?

GPA should be taken with a grain of salt, just like everything else. Each person is unique, with varying GPAs and backgrounds. Some people have low GPAs but are very competent. Others have high GPAs and can't do anything. Then there are those that can and have high GPAs. A low GPA but a high competency could be an indicator of focus only on what one values, and school isn't valued. An employer could look at it and question if work will motivate the candidate enough to perform. Others will weight the GPA less in the face of obvious competence. For recent graduates, GPA is something, not everything. Not everything is an extreme, a binary, or even a finite state. There are shades of grey.
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#29 JackOfAllTrades  Icon User is offline

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Re: I need advice from you guys

Posted 27 December 2012 - 06:20 AM

What with the rampant grade inflation nowadays, I'm not trusting a HIGH GPA as an indicator at all. In light of the aforementioned inflation, if you come in with a LOW GPA, I might consider that a red flag.

I'd just leave any GPA off your CV and only provide it if the hiring person asks.
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#30 RozenKristal  Icon User is offline

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Re: I need advice from you guys

Posted 27 December 2012 - 07:48 AM

Thank you, I am considering that also.
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