[modi123_1]

My guess is your approach to criticism is wrong... that or you are mislabeling just being insulting and snarkish with criticism.

Criticism is an Important Part of Thinking

Constructive criticism necessary for improvement

DEALING WITH CRITICISM

Quote

“Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.”

Winston Churchill

[Zero Cool]

modi123_1, on 31 December 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

My guess is your approach to criticism is wrong... that or you are mislabeling just being insulting and snarkish with criticism.

Criticism is an Important Part of Thinking

Constructive criticism necessary for improvement

DEALING WITH CRITICISM

Quote

“Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.”

Winston Churchill

Nice quote. I will have to check out those links and see if my problem lies in semantics or my philosophy/execution.

I certainly wouldn't put a certain level of snarkiness past myself, though, truth be told.

The idea was planted in my head when I was reading an excerpt from a famous old book written by Dale Carnegie.

[supersloth]

how to win friends and influence people

[Zero Cool]

supersloth, on 31 December 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

how to win friends and influence people

Yes! That is exactly it. I think it is a pretty famous book. Although, it is much like any other self-help book- fraught with a lot of worthless information/filler that could easily be distilled down to the cliff notes of the relevant takeaway points, some of which are actually helpful, and some which sound logical but really have no effectiveness when implemented in the real world.

Thanks sloth

This post has been edited by Zero Cool: 31 December 2012 - 01:47 PM

[supersloth]

you're still taking the wrong message from the book. he isn't about not criticizing people, just like modi said above, it's about taking a different approach to the criticism, or making people think they came up with it themselves.

[Zero Cool]

supersloth, on 31 December 2012 - 08:49 PM, said:

you're still taking the wrong message from the book. he isn't about not criticizing people, just like modi said above, it's about taking a different approach to the criticism, or making people think they came up with it themselves.

Thanks for the clarification.

I only read an exerpt- maybe I should get the whole book and read it verbatim to the way he intended. I imagine a used copy on Amazon Marketplace has to be dirt cheap.

This post has been edited by Zero Cool: 31 December 2012 - 01:53 PM

[supersloth]

maybe your new years resolution should be to read the whole book instead of the cliff notes before quoting it to people.

criticism!

[Zero Cool]

supersloth, on 31 December 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

maybe your new years resolution should be to read the whole book instead of the cliff notes before quoting it to people.

criticism!

Bazinga!

I think a helpful New Year's resolution for you might be to read threads more carefully, especially ones where I never "quoted" the author at all

[modi123_1]

Wait.. you were going to change your base interaction with people based off an excerpt of a book? Ah.. that sounds like it's rife with hinky-ness.

Think about what you are saying "[I am going] to make a habit out of never saying anything critical or negative about anyone" and apply it to the larger.

As a developer how the heck would anything get done during testing or review?

What? What's that Big Bossman? It's time for a code review? To quote Kurt Vonnegut Jr: 'Why don't you take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut? Why don't you take a flying fuck at the mooooooooooooon?'. I don't do criticism anymore.".

[Zero Cool]

supersloth, on 31 December 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

maybe your new years resolution should be to read the whole book instead of the cliff notes before quoting it to people.

criticism!

But if I was to quote him, it might look something like this: "Principle 1: Don’t criticize, condemn or complain".

[Zero Cool]

modi123_1, on 31 December 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

Wait.. you were going to change your base interaction with people based off an excerpt of a book? Ah.. that sounds like it's rife with hinky-ness.

Think about what you are saying "[I am going] to make a habit out of never saying anything critical or negative about anyone" and apply it to the larger.

As a developer how the heck would anything get done during testing or review?

What? What's that Big Bossman? It's time for a code review? To quote Kurt Vonnegut Jr: 'Why don't you take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut? Why don't you take a flying fuck at the mooooooooooooon?'. I don't do criticism anymore.".

Ah, I think that's a little extreme. I think what I had in mind was more along the lines of, 'do my best not to say negative things about people for awhile, in order to learn to control it and only use criticism when necessary.'

It was sort of a revelation when I read that excerpt and realized I do complain about people in a negative way more often than I had ever thought or realized. Does criticizing people make me feel better and drive other people's behavior in a way I desire? Sure.

But I think the bigger point is, is there a way to drive that behavior, in a less self-serving way, that will cause less tension and resentment between the two parties? That is essentially what I'm experimentally driving at here with real world experinmentation.

However, that being said, you'd better believe that when the game is on the line (i.e. your example, the job review), I'm going full instinct, full blast. When we're complaining about customers and sales people and stupid friends, that is the time for this experiment.

[supersloth]

paraphrasing then, MY BAD.

SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE EXACT IN MY WORD CHOICE FOR THE DUDE WHO PARAPHRASES EXCERPTS IN A PEDANTIC FASHION WHILE CONTINUING TO MISS THE FOREST FOR THE TREES.

supersloth, on 31 December 2012 - 01:14 PM, said:

meh, some people are dipshits and deserve to be told as much.

i was talking about zero cool and didn't even realize it.

[atraub]

A better principle 1: Make the stupid feel stupid

[jon.kiparsky]

Zero Cool, on 31 December 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

But I think after I have mastered my tongue

You realize that you'll need to provide testimonials from a certified authentic fe-male lady girl-type person before you can make any such claim, right?

[Zero Cool]

supersloth, on 31 December 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

paraphrasing then, MY BAD.

SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE EXACT IN MY WORD CHOICE FOR THE DUDE WHO PARAPHRASES EXCERPTS IN A PEDANTIC FASHION WHILE CONTINUING TO MISS THE FOREST FOR THE TREES.

supersloth, on 31 December 2012 - 01:14 PM, said:

meh, some people are dipshits and deserve to be told as much.

i was talking about zero cool and didn't even realize it.

I think that you, good sloth, are the one missing the point. You talk about tactful criticism and preach the good sermon and then turn around, get your jimmies rustled, and act like a total ass one post later. This is exactly the kind of thing I'm referring to. Instead of helping me see your point of view, which I would've appreciated, you just attack me to make yourself feel better.

It also shows me that nothing you have to say on this subject really carries any weight because you have read the book and mentally recited the words, but you have learned nothing of what he was trying to teach. At least from that chapter.

jon.kiparsky, on 31 December 2012 - 09:11 PM, said:

Zero Cool, on 31 December 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

But I think after I have mastered my tongue

You realize that you'll need to provide testimonials from a certified authentic fe-male lady girl-type person before you can make any such claim, right?

Well, everyone knows that there are no girls on the internet, so such "proof" is, by definition, impossible.