[macosxnerd101]

Quote

You make me sound so mean to conspiracy theories... I'm not, really. I'm a nice guy... sometimes... occasionally..

You're really coming out of left field here. The US isn't just going to print away the deficit. As farrell2k said- the Fed doesn't "print" the money, so to speak.

Do you actually understand what's happening or are you just shouting and posting for shock value?

[KYA]

CTphpnwb, on 06 January 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

I recently had a Tea Bagger tell me that the real problem was all these Americans making $50/hour when they should be making $2/hour to compete with the Chinese. He meant it too! He couldn't tell me where I could apply for one of those jobs so I can't let you all know too.

I'm going to throw the bullshit flag. That story is just too retarded to be true.

[jon.kiparsky]

Probby true modulo some degree of exaggeration. It's likely that someone who disagrees with him ( = "a teabagger") suggested that high wages in American manufacturing affect corporate decisions regarding manufacturing locations ( = "Americans should lower their wages to Chinese levels")

Sort of like "Obama hasn't done exactly everything I wanted just the way I would have asked him to do it" gets turned into "Obama's just as bad as the Republicans". Or in the reverse case, "Obama hasn't eliminated the Federal government and convetered us to a pure anarcho-capitalist Ayn Rand wet dream" is often expressed as "Obama is a socialist out to destroy our freedoms".

Ways to tell you're not talking to anyone who understands what they're talking about. Unfortunately, people sometimes vote for morons who express these sorts of views - and might even hold them.

This post has been edited by jon.kiparsky: 06 January 2013 - 04:56 PM

[macosxnerd101]

The other thing to remember is that the standards of living are different. A fundamental concept in macroeconomics is that the standards of livings of developing nations tend to rise rather quickly, then converge to comparable levels as other developed nations.

Chinese wages are rising. In a few years, there probably won't be a drastic difference in the cost to manufacture a product in China over the US.

Quote

As China's economy has exploded over the last 30 years, so too have the incomes and living standards of average Chinese people.

The average disposable income of urban Chinese households rose to around $3,000 per capita in 2010, according to an analysis of official government statistics by China Market Research Group. That means a typical family of three earns around $9,000 a year.
10 largest economies
G-20 nations at a glance

While that might not sound like a lot by U.S. standards, it's a boon for Chinese residents, who have seen their yearly earnings multiply tenfold since 1980.

http://money.cnn.com...class/index.htm

[jon.kiparsky]

Right, but those are facts. We don't want those, they're not so interesting as manic assertions of iniquity.

[Python_4_President]

This dude has a pretty good perspective on what's going on. Maybe one a little more robust than the self-trained economist's.

[CTphpnwb]

KYA, on 06 January 2013 - 07:45 PM, said:

CTphpnwb, on 06 January 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

I recently had a Tea Bagger tell me that the real problem was all these Americans making $50/hour when they should be making $2/hour to compete with the Chinese. He meant it too! He couldn't tell me where I could apply for one of those jobs so I can't let you all know too.

I'm going to throw the bullshit flag. That story is just too retarded to be true.

No, it's true. I still have trouble believing it myself though, and I had an old woman tell me (on election day) that she didn't vote for Obama for two reasons:

• She thought he was a Socialist.
  
• She thought he cut into her Medicare.

I didn't have the heart to tell her that Medicare is a Socialist program, but this guy wasn't a scared, retired old lady.

Florida isn't known for its intellectuals.

This post has been edited by CTphpnwb: 06 January 2013 - 06:10 PM

[CTphpnwb]

macosxnerd101, on 06 January 2013 - 08:04 PM, said:

The other thing to remember is that the standards of living are different. A fundamental concept in macroeconomics is that the standards of livings of developing nations tend to rise rather quickly, then converge to comparable levels as other developed nations.

Chinese wages are rising. In a few years, there probably won't be a drastic difference in the cost to manufacture a product in China over the US.

Quote

As China's economy has exploded over the last 30 years, so too have the incomes and living standards of average Chinese people.

The average disposable income of urban Chinese households rose to around $3,000 per capita in 2010, according to an analysis of official government statistics by China Market Research Group. That means a typical family of three earns around $9,000 a year.
10 largest economies
G-20 nations at a glance

While that might not sound like a lot by U.S. standards, it's a boon for Chinese residents, who have seen their yearly earnings multiply tenfold since 1980.

http://money.cnn.com...class/index.htm

Rising, sure. A few years though? I don't think so. In most places in the U.S. a crappy apartment will rent for somewhere around $800/month. That's $9,600 per year before you pay for food, clothing, transportation, utilities, taxes, health care, etc. Combine that with China's subsidies for their exporters and it's pretty clear that U.S. workers are not competing in a free market.

[farrell2k]

CTphpnwb, on 07 January 2013 - 12:44 AM, said:

KYA, on 06 January 2013 - 07:45 PM, said:

CTphpnwb, on 06 January 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

I recently had a Tea Bagger tell me that the real problem was all these Americans making $50/hour when they should be making $2/hour to compete with the Chinese. He meant it too! He couldn't tell me where I could apply for one of those jobs so I can't let you all know too.

I'm going to throw the bullshit flag. That story is just too retarded to be true.

No, it's true. I still have trouble believing it myself though, and I had an old woman tell me (on election day) that she didn't vote for Obama for two reasons:

• She thought he was a Socialist.
  
• She thought he cut into her Medicare.

/>
I didn't have the heart to tell her that Medicare is a Socialist program, but this guy wasn't a scared, retired old lady.

Florida isn't known for its intellectuals.

I believe this. I'm confident in saying that The U.S. has the dumbest electorate in the world. I meet people every day who think the country would be better off if The government just stopped spending money, reverting itself to is 1776 "glory", as if somehow it is even remotely possible for a government of 320 million people to just stop spending.

The problem in this country is spending, but it's not social welfare spending, it's corporate welfare and outrageous military spending.

[macosxnerd101]

Quote

The problem in this country is spending, but it's not social welfare spending, it's corporate welfare and outrageous military spending.

Social welfare spending is a problem. The fact that our social entitlement programs are well into the red says it there. Regardless of whether one's political or moral views dictate having them, the bottom line is that we aren't doing a good job of paying for them. Plus, look at the Federal budget. Approximately 41% of our budget is for social security, medicare, medicaid, and CHIP (children's health insurance program). In comparison, defense spending accounts for 20% of the budget.

Now look at infrastructure, education, and research spending. Those are represented with 3%, 2%, and 2% of the budget respectively.

Cite: http://www.cbpp.org/...fa=view&id=1258

[jon.kiparsky]

What would it look like if social welfare programs were meant to make money, do you think?

Food stamps reinvented as a lottery?

[modi123_1]

Side note - big fan of 'death and taxes' infographic poster.

(fyi it's huge).
http://thumbnails.vi...290d63431c4.jpg

[macosxnerd101]

jon.kiparsky, on 07 January 2013 - 12:45 AM, said:

What would it look like if social welfare programs were meant to make money, do you think?

Food stamps reinvented as a lottery?

Or perhaps we should disguise it as something outlandish, like a job.

[Python_4_President]

Wasn't slavery a profitable form of welfare?

[jon.kiparsky]

If you don't believe in social welfare programs, that's one thing, but if you're going to have them, they're going to be in the red. Sort of like fire departments and road construction: they don't make a profit. That's the deal. If they do, you're doing it wrong.

It's sort of like having a bathroom in your office: the can doesn't make a lot of money for the company, but without it, your company doesn't make a lot of money. If the company puts a coin slot on the crapper, you're doing it wrong.