[baavgai]

No. In a free society people should be allowed to own their existence. Shaming them into living is unconscionable.

[creativecoding]

I'm pretty sure depression, substance abuse, suicide, and all of that stuff is way above our heads of fully understanding. People here talking about how they should take responsibility... Think anorexics should do the same? "Why don't you just eat?", I mean cmon... It's A LOT more than that. It's not a simple "oh they're lazy, they took the easy way out, what a pussy".

Suicide is a complex issue probably stemming from many different problems. It's not a simple not wanting to face the day.

And no death should be treated this way, with hateful messages about how he took the easy way out and is a coward. The dude died. Do you think he wanted that? Probably not. But it was probably the lesser of two evils, the other being whatever he was facing in his mind or in reality.

You all have no idea what he was going through or what the full story is. Show some respect.

[Atli]

WolfCoder, on 12 January 2013 - 11:52 PM, said:

Atli, on 12 January 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

...

WolfCoder said:

Just like Alcoholism is a disease? Oh wait..

And I suppose you think addiction is just weak mindedness?...

Yes.


You need to take responsibility. This whole "I am powerless to fight this disease" bullshit was started by groups like AA to replace your dependency on things like alcohol with a dependency for god. I'm pretty sure the christian god doesn't work that way anyways, aren't you supposed to make the effort to help yourself to receive any help?


You must fight your problems. If you cannot do it alone, then let your friends and family help you. If you don't, you die weak and you hurt the ones you love.

Who said anything about people being powerless to fight addiction? I'm in no way saying that it being a mental illness excuses people from trying to overcome it. If I were to become alcoholic (which I'm apparently genetically predisposed to) I would certainly go find a good psychologist to help me. (I'd stay away from the religious aspect though.)

Denying that it is a real problem, however, isn't helping in the slightest. In fact, it does just the opposite. Do you think it makes people more or less likely to admit their problem if society in general thinks of them as weaklings, or if they think of them as suffering an illness?

I think CC is right though. People like shooting their mounts off about things like this without having the slightest clue about what their talking. We can even think that we are totally right; that logic and common sense backs our view up perfectly. But we'd probably be wrong. - I've got some experience with mentally ill people, which is why I'm inclined to talk on their behalf like this. In my experience, nothing about that is ever as simple as it looks to an outsider.

[KYA]

creativecoding, on 12 January 2013 - 05:39 PM, said:

Show some respect.

For what? You don't honor people who kill themselves.

Show respect for his loved ones? He didn't.
Show respect for his life's work? He didn't.

If you want to kill yourself then go do it. Don't expect a parade.

[ishkabible]

Would you still say that if he had some mental illness?

[creativecoding]

@KYA:

Maybe you don't, but I think every dead person deserves some form of respect. You don't have to honor them, throw parades, or celebrate their living. Just don't go insulting them.

You ever heard the phrase "treat people the way you want to be treated"? You obviously aren't showing any respect for his loved ones, his life work, or himself. Should I start insulting you?

This post has been edited by creativecoding: 13 January 2013 - 01:41 AM

[KYA]

If I kill myself feel free.

--

Saying that people who want to kill themselves should go ahead and do it is not an insult.

[xclite]

What a bunch of judgmental asshats. I'm happy for you that you've never been so dark that you can be pissed at somebody for killing themselves before you approve of their dying.

This post has been edited by xclite: 12 January 2013 - 07:32 PM

[Lemur]

By all technical means I have a mental illness. Does that give me the right to be selfish, to treat myself like a special snowflake and expect the world to cater to my whim because I'm special? No. Have I thought about suicide? Yes. What makes me less of a coward is choosing not to act on that impulse.

I didn't have a choice to be autistic, but the choice I do have is to not blame it for anything bad that happens to me, and to suck it up and act like a man. Nothing pisses me off more than someone saying they did something or bad things happen because they're aspergers. It's selfish, cowardly, and lazy.

You're dealt with a hand of cards. know how to bluff and how to play them and you don't have to fold.

So from the guy with mental illness, screw off. We're not special and I personally hate people that treat me as such.

[ishkabible]

There are different mental illnesses that can cause someone to commit suicide, not all mental illnesses would cause it. I grew out of a seizure disorder. Thoughts of suicide or the impulses to do so ARE NOT symptoms of the seizure disorder I had. My point is, just because you have a mental illness doesn't mean that mental illness causes thoughts or impulses of suicide.

From what I've read about autism (specifically I've read about mild autism because my little cuz was diagnosed) it's not a common symptom. I'm in no way an expert however, and I don't know what symptoms you had so perhaps this observation doesn't apply.

This post has been edited by ishkabible: 12 January 2013 - 11:19 PM

[xclite]

Lemur, on 12 January 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

So from the guy with mental illness, screw off. We're not special and I personally hate people that treat me as such.

"I can deal with what I consider 'technically' a mental illness, therefore this guy is a coward."

[jon.kiparsky]

It's hardly treating him like a "special snowflake" (whatever that's supposed to mean - around here, you shovel up special snowflakes and dump them in a heap beside the road) to consider someone who's spending their last moments knowing that the only thing worse than dying is continuing to live, and to have some empathy for that person.

What baffles me, though, is WolfCoder's notion that somehow a person who's decided that it's time to end their own life is going to somehow be swayed by the thought that some jerk on the internet is going to call him names. I don't know how that works, really. What's worse than dying? Dying and being made fun of! Oh, well, maybe I'll live.

[WolfCoder]

baavgai, on 12 January 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

No. In a free society people should be allowed to own their existence. Shaming them into living is unconscionable.

Nothing stopped him from killing himself in this free society, just like how in a free society I can say such an act is shameful.

Atli, on 12 January 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

...Denying that it is a real problem, however, isn't helping in the slightest...

It's a good thing I'm not denying it is a real problem. I've talked enough people out of suicide before, this is a pretty personal subject for me.

creativecoding, on 12 January 2013 - 06:27 PM, said:

...You ever heard the phrase "treat people the way they want to be treated"?...

No. No, I haven't. I have heard of "treat people the way you would want to be treated" though.

xclite, on 12 January 2013 - 07:32 PM, said:

What a bunch of judgmental asshats. I'm happy for you that you've never been so dark that you can be pissed at somebody for killing themselves before you approve of their dying.

You assume too much..

jon.kiparsky, on 12 January 2013 - 08:19 PM, said:

...What baffles me, though, is WolfCoder's notion that somehow a person who's decided that it's time to end their own life is going to somehow be swayed by the thought that some jerk on the internet is going to call him names. I don't know how that works, really. What's worse than dying? Dying and being made fun of! Oh, well, maybe I'll live.

I know, it's totally ridiculous, right? It's a good thing that's not the intended purpose.



I am really tired of seeing completely lovable and salvageable people wanting to kill themselves, cause great harm to a family they think doesn't love them, and harm to friends they don't believe care about them. This is not OK, I implore you all to stop talking out of your asses and actually go out there and reach out to help someone you believe is depressed.

This isn't the time for trying to feel morally superior on the Internet, for once just take a few moments of your time to be the only one who listens in someone's life.

This post has been edited by WolfCoder: 13 January 2013 - 01:35 AM

[Atli]

WolfCoder, on 13 January 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

This isn't the time for trying to feel morally superior on the Internet...

That's kind of rich, coming from the one who started this thread, to declare this guy pathetic and selfish for committing suicide.

[WolfCoder]

You're not even listening to me even when you're quoting me..