[Link] How to Kill Java dead, dead, dead

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#1 macosxnerd101  Icon User is online

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[Link] How to Kill Java dead, dead, dead

Post icon  Posted 17 January 2013 - 02:37 PM

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Java on the client side has turned into a malicious hacker's best friend, and developers really don't need it anymore. In fact, it's causing them more problems than it's worth. Although using Java lets a developer avoid writing custom code for the various versions of Windows and OS X, whether for native apps or browser client functions, the fact is that apps get tied to a specific Java version. Developers have a version-management problem anyway.

You'd think that IT organizations would have stomped out client-side Java long ago. I regularly hear IT folks moan about how they can't upgrade some users to Internet Explorer 8 because some specialty app they're running only works with the Java supported by IE6. I even know some who've had to give users two PCs because one app uses a Java version supported only by IE7 and another app uses Java supported only by IE8, which both can't be installed on the same PC. Java is the problem.


http://www.javaworld...-java-dead.html

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Replies To: [Link] How to Kill Java dead, dead, dead

#2 BetaWar  Icon User is offline

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Re: [Link] How to Kill Java dead, dead, dead

Posted 17 January 2013 - 04:28 PM

Nice article. I personally uninstalled Java from my personal machines when the Java Zero-Day hack was first reported (months ago). It turns out I don't use it for anything on my personal computers (except maybe Adobe, but I assume that comes packaged with its own JREs as it hasn't complained to me yet).

I am also in the process of transferring all Java-related applications from my work machine to a Linux VM running on the machine so I can uninstall it there too.

In my opinion, Java free is the way to be
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#3 tlhIn`toq  Icon User is offline

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Re: [Link] How to Kill Java dead, dead, dead

Posted 17 January 2013 - 06:02 PM

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Java on the client side has turned into a malicious hacker's best friend,


And windows is right there too. New hacks and attempts to stop daily.

Quote

You'd think that IT organizations would have stomped out client-side Java long ago.


Along with windows... or VB6... dial up 300 baud credit card terminals... fax machines... Yet all are alive and probably will be for years.

I'm not saying I'm for or against any of it. Just recognizing that this industry doesn't do what people expect or makes sense. Who would have predicted that an industry dominated by males would have flocked around a company named by combining "micro" and "soft"???

Once something gets a foothold it takes on a life of its own and remains for years.
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#4 farrell2k  Icon User is offline

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Re: [Link] How to Kill Java dead, dead, dead

Posted 17 January 2013 - 06:56 PM

Java makes me entirely too much money to abandon!
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#5 quim  Icon User is offline

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Re: [Link] How to Kill Java dead, dead, dead

Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:41 PM

That article is so stupid, and was probably written by someone that really hates Java.
Java still has a long way ahead.

Have you heard of JVM languages?
Groovy, Scala, Clojure,...
TRUE, they are replacing Java, but they all compile to Java Bytecode which need the JRE.
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#6 baavgai  Icon User is offline

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Re: [Link] How to Kill Java dead, dead, dead

Posted 18 January 2013 - 07:06 PM

Quite an overreaction. In a nut shell, a Java program can require a particular JVM to run... Put another way, a program requires the correct operating environment in which to run. Well, let's just get rid of all programs that meet that criteria. :P

Dumbass.

Granted, Java occupies a strange place in the OS. It runs as a program in a program. If hosted in a browser, it's a program running in a JVM hosted by another program. What this often means is that, while JVMs can coexist, the browser might choose one and only one.

Silverlight has similar issues. I've seen business software that uses ActiveX and requires IE6; now that should be killed. For version hell, it's really the companies that support the software creating the issue. Forcing customers to meet ancient, often barely supported, requirements.
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#7 farrell2k  Icon User is offline

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Re: [Link] How to Kill Java dead, dead, dead

Posted 18 January 2013 - 07:43 PM

View Postbaavgai, on 19 January 2013 - 02:06 AM, said:

Silverlight has similar issues. I've seen business software that uses ActiveX and requires IE6; now that should be killed.


IE6 hell. So true. It's still used by many.
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#8 CTphpnwb  Icon User is offline

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Re: [Link] How to Kill Java dead, dead, dead

Posted 19 January 2013 - 08:01 AM

View Postbaavgai, on 18 January 2013 - 10:06 PM, said:

Granted, Java occupies a strange place in the OS. It runs as a program in a program.

A good reason to be rid of it. It promises cross platform compatibility but what it delivers is slow software and security issues.
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#9 farrell2k  Icon User is offline

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Re: [Link] How to Kill Java dead, dead, dead

Posted 19 January 2013 - 08:10 AM

View PostCTphpnwb, on 19 January 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

View Postbaavgai, on 18 January 2013 - 10:06 PM, said:

Granted, Java occupies a strange place in the OS. It runs as a program in a program.

A good reason to be rid of it. It promises cross platform compatibility but what it delivers is slow software and security issues.


This clearly demonstrates that you have no idea what you're talking about.
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#10 CTphpnwb  Icon User is offline

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Re: [Link] How to Kill Java dead, dead, dead

Posted 19 January 2013 - 08:43 AM

Right. I must have been fooled into thinking it was the JVM that slows down Java apps on my system while everything else flies. Maybe it's just that I've only ever seen poorly developed Java apps.
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#11 Ryano121  Icon User is offline

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Re: [Link] How to Kill Java dead, dead, dead

Posted 19 January 2013 - 08:52 AM

Java programs can be as fast a you want them to be. One of the downsides of having memory management done for you is that developers often get sloppy with resources and efficiency in order to just get the job done as quick as possible. Speed is often an afterthought.
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#12 CTphpnwb  Icon User is offline

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Re: [Link] How to Kill Java dead, dead, dead

Posted 19 January 2013 - 09:05 AM

Ok, so we have 2 possible reasons to dump it:
  • Java coders suck.
  • Java is slow.

:dozingoff:
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#13 Ryano121  Icon User is offline

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Re: [Link] How to Kill Java dead, dead, dead

Posted 19 January 2013 - 09:21 AM

No, thats not what I said. I said Java can be slow. It also can be just as fast as unmanaged C++ in some cases.

The point I was trying to make is that it's much easier to make inefficient programs in Java due to the fact that is has a VM. If you care about speed, speed, speed then developers have to actually think about what they're doing. This is not so much the case in C++ where developers are already thinking about it. Its one of the main reasons why people use it.

So yeah Java coders suck. So do some developers for every other language. Whats your point? And yes Java can be slow, but it can also be very fast if thats what the developers are going for.
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#14 CTphpnwb  Icon User is offline

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Re: [Link] How to Kill Java dead, dead, dead

Posted 19 January 2013 - 09:28 AM

The point I was trying to make is that the proof is in the pudding. I've never seen Java be quick, or even reasonably fast. The question you're trying to answer is: why? The problem is that at this point, more than a dozen years after it was first criticized for being slow, and combined with its adding to internet insecurity, the real question is: why use it?
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#15 Ryano121  Icon User is offline

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Re: [Link] How to Kill Java dead, dead, dead

Posted 19 January 2013 - 09:40 AM

Well the proof is in the pudding. I use Java every day and have seen it be fast. The question really is if you don't use it what are you basing this on?

If you are basing this on it being slow in the 90's then you need to update yourself. It was extremely slow back then. Nobody can deny that. The fact is a lot of work has been done in those years in between. It's now nowhere near as slow as it used to be. Not even close.

Why use it however is a better question and I agree that the security issues are a big put off at the moment. Not the speed however.
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