Success is my only option failure is not

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134 Replies - 4809 Views - Last Post: 01 February 2013 - 01:44 PM

#46 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is online

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Re: Success is my only option failure is not

Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:08 PM

Of course he's not sexist. He's a know-it-all who doesn't, and it's embarrassing to read.
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#47 h4nnib4l  Icon User is offline

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Re: Success is my only option failure is not

Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:25 PM

Just as a heads' up, if you find yourself in a position where you are talking about a very broad group of people (like, for example, half of the people on the planet), and your position lends itself to starting sentences with "It's not that they're not smart enough" or "I'm not (whatever)ist but...", then you are most definitely that.
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#48 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: Success is my only option failure is not

Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:29 PM

Examples to high light that: I'm not sexist but...
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#49 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is online

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Re: Success is my only option failure is not

Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:30 PM

As a corollary, if you ever find yourself saying things like "the people I'm talking to don't understand what I'm saying because they're not sufficiently well-informed", it's very likely that something else might be going on.
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#50 macosxnerd101  Icon User is online

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Re: Success is my only option failure is not

Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:36 PM

I wonder if we should get NecroWinter some binders full of women so he can produce a normal distribution to test whether or not the women perceive his comments as sexist.

Posted Image
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#51 NecroWinter  Icon User is offline

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Re: Success is my only option failure is not

Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:41 PM

View Posth4nnib4l, on 28 January 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

Just as a heads' up, if you find yourself in a position where you are talking about a very broad group of people (like, for example, half of the people on the planet), and your position lends itself to starting sentences with "It's not that they're not smart enough" or "I'm not (whatever)ist but...", then you are most definitely that.

No. Culture matters, and in this context, we have very old notions of gender roles that hold back men and women alike, but in different ways.

What actually happened was people didn't understand the context of why I brought up the issue. Which, perhaps, I should have made myself more clear. We were talking about people in college dropping out or not doing well based on nothing more than insecurity or other reasons not really related to actual ability, we were also talking about a female poster who just got told that perhaps they arent clever by another poster. I thought it was common knowledge that women have been observed to avoid or leave STEM fields (and the reasons cited are usually gender roles, peers or insecurity), I shouldn't have made this mistake. My college puts a lot of effort in trying to encourage women to enter these fields because of these well researched findings, as well as how common it is for women to leave these majors at my actual college (as I have pointed out).
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#52 lordofduct  Icon User is offline

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Re: Success is my only option failure is not

Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:46 PM

TLDR;

"I have a friend who is black!"



I just kid...



... no I don't.

This post has been edited by lordofduct: 28 January 2013 - 02:47 PM

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#53 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is online

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Re: Success is my only option failure is not

Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:52 PM

I don't think anyone that you're talking to is unaware that women are not well represented in tech, or that women don't enter tech subjects at the same rates men do, or that they leave those subjects at greater rates than men do.

Again: if you think you're the only one in the conversation who knows stuff, it's a good idea to review the situation carefully. If you're right, then why are you bothering to take part in the conversation?
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#54 NeoTifa  Icon User is offline

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Re: Success is my only option failure is not

Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:54 PM

Lololololol im not racist I have a color tv... jk but thats what this thread reminds me of.

To be fair, I get what you're getting at, necrowinter, as I've ranted about it 1000 times before. Computing and math oriented stuff is "boy stuff" and girls are supposed to act dumb and ditzy and cute as apparently guys are into that. Being a computer whiz = being nerdy = being smart = being not dumb = not attractive according to popular media. It's just been spoonfed to us. Women are supposed to be damsels in distress, helpless, guys are supposed to be the sole providers, etc. That's why women typically don't enter physically intensive jobs (there are a whopping 3 of us on my current job site out of about 50-60), jobs that require a lot of math/thinking, etc.

Now I'm not saying there aren't women out there who love those types of jobs, this just appears typical from my interactions with other women.

This post has been edited by NeoTifa: 28 January 2013 - 02:57 PM

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#55 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: Success is my only option failure is not

Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:55 PM

Which woman was he referring to? Neo? The OP?
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#56 NeoTifa  Icon User is offline

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Re: Success is my only option failure is not

Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:58 PM

I think lemur was jabbing at me because he slays me at word with friends lol.
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#57 WolfCoder  Icon User is offline

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Re: Success is my only option failure is not

Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:59 PM

View PostNecroWinter, on 28 January 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

...we were also talking about a female poster who just got told that perhaps they arent clever by another poster. I thought it was common knowledge that women have been observed to avoid or leave STEM fields (and the reasons cited are usually gender roles, peers or insecurity), I shouldn't have made this mistake. My college puts a lot of effort in trying to encourage women to enter these fields because of these well researched findings, as well as how common it is for women to leave these majors at my actual college (as I have pointed out).


Alright, now you're starting to actually sound sexist (especially after everyone's clarified themselves)- the progressive s/he-wolf made out of pure adamant rage and gender revolution inside me is about to take over. Stop now before I make everything ambiguous!
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#58 NecroWinter  Icon User is offline

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Re: Success is my only option failure is not

Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:01 PM

View Postjon.kiparsky, on 28 January 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

I don't think anyone that you're talking to is unaware that women are not well represented in tech, or that women don't enter tech subjects at the same rates men do, or that they leave those subjects at greater rates than men do.

Again: if you think you're the only one in the conversation who knows stuff, it's a good idea to review the situation carefully. If you're right, then why are you bothering to take part in the conversation?


Well, based on some of the responses I got, it seemed like a lot of people thought I was just making this up to insult women, when in reality, I have a slight interest in sociology, and I would like to see certain characteristics of our society changed to better suit everyone.

I don't think I'm the only person who knows stuff, I just think some of the people who entered this conversation made remarks that were ill-informed (what I said about informed readers was not aimed at everyone, and I only said it to point out that some dont actually know about this topic very well, not that theyre generally ignorant). I don't think I'm a know it all or that I'm better than everyone here, I take part in this conversation because I actually have interest in the topic.
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#59 supersloth  Icon User is offline

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Re: Success is my only option failure is not

Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:02 PM

*
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View PostWolfCoder, on 28 January 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

the progressive s/he-wolf made out of pure adamant rage and gender revolution inside me is about to take over.

nothing to add, just quoting for posterity.
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#60 NecroWinter  Icon User is offline

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Re: Success is my only option failure is not

Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:05 PM

View PostNeoTifa, on 28 January 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

Lololololol im not racist I have a color tv... jk but thats what this thread reminds me of.

To be fair, I get what you're getting at, necrowinter, as I've ranted about it 1000 times before. Computing and math oriented stuff is "boy stuff" and girls are supposed to act dumb and ditzy and cute as apparently guys are into that. Being a computer whiz = being nerdy = being smart = being not dumb = not attractive according to popular media. It's just been spoonfed to us. Women are supposed to be damsels in distress, helpless, guys are supposed to be the sole providers, etc. That's why women typically don't enter physically intensive jobs (there are a whopping 3 of us on my current job site out of about 50-60), jobs that require a lot of math/thinking, etc.

Now I'm not saying there aren't women out there who love those types of jobs, this just appears typical from my interactions with other women.


Im glad you understood me lol

and I have no idea of how you and Lemur interact, and I dont think hes sexist or anything like that either, I just thought it opened the door to this topic. If I thought he was sexist, or had suspicion of it, I would have addressed him in some way.
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