[legion1202]

I do not know if this is the right place to put this topic but he her goes.


I`m new to the forum and new to programming. Actually I haven't even started to learn any programming. Before I Start asking some questions I want to talk about what I`ve done with my life so far.

I`ve always been around computers. I was taking parts out of computers since I was 6 (I'm 31 now) After high school I didn’t want to go to college. I was to busy with friends chasing skirt with the hopes of finding something to do with my life along the way. I went to school to become a paramedic/fire fighter and did that while working in different aspects of the IT Field. I got a 2 year degree in computer science at my local college. I Got out of the paramedic field because of personal reasons (broke my hand very badly) since then I have been jumping IT jobs from system admin to pulling cable. I know I have ADHD and I get very bored setting up users or fixing problems such as telling users they have to plug the power cable into the laptop because although it is wireless you still need to plug power in. With that being said I do enjoy working with computers it comes very natural to me.

So why am I on this programming forum..

Since I was a kid and playing video games I`ve always been interested in programming and designing things. I took a basic html class in high school and I remember loving my final project. I haven’t touched html since high school though. I thought about going to school for it when doing my a.s but I hate math. I know by reading post's here programming isn’t all about math. In Fact I hate math but I love it when it pertains to something I enjoy. A part of me would love to get into programming to make programs, make games and just to be able to get evolved with development communities. When playing games I am always into modding although I usually don’t do the actual modding. I like testing them and trying to figure out how it works. I`ll usually tweak setting but that’s as far as I will dare to get into it because I don't know how to script or code.

I`ve read a bunch of articles about adhd in the programming field. I love troubleshooting, I love seeing things coming together and I like it when I figure something out after days of trying to make it work. I also love going into burning buildings and the excitement that comes with it haha but I can’t do that anymore. I belong to a flight sim communities and a few of my online friends are programmers and I always see the creating something. I really see myself doing projects like that. IT would be even better to do it and make money.. I hope I am not rambling haha so here are some questions..

1. Where do I start? I`ve been looking into local, online and just learn code in 30 days type schools. For someone who is 30 what is the best path? I have no problem learning on my own.. I taught myself everything I know from setting up networks to deploying server by just messing around. But at the same time I want to learn coding the right way. I plan on learn C+,C++,java,etc... Like I said I want to be able to make useful stuff such as Paramedic/ff programs, maybe a game one day, I want to get a job,etc.

2. Will my age play a role in getting a job?

3. Anyone here a programmer with adhd?

4. What’s the benefits for getting a degree vs watching videos or reading books?

I think the first thing I should do is try a 20-30 day program and see if I like it. Problem is there so many I want to pick the right one and not get burned because I have no clue what they’re talking about. Can anyone refer me to one?

Sorry for this big post and thanks for your time.


Greg

[tlhIn`toq]

Quote

I hope I am not rambling

You are. Most of that would be "introduce yourself". And boils down to saying "I love computers - how do I get a job coding?"


1. You start by learning and practicing, practicing, practicing, practicing (about 10,000 hours worth for most skills)

Spoiler

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My standard beginner resources post - Updated JAN 2013

---

Plan your study route:
There are three routes people seem to take when learning programming.

• Just start trying to create programs
  
• Start taking apart other programs and try to figure out the language by reverse engineering
  
• Follow a guided learning course (school or self-teaching books)

For the life of me I can't figure out why people try 1 & 2. I strongly suggest taking the guided learning approach. Those book authors go in a certain order for a reason: They know what they're doing and they know the best order to learn the materials.

• First learn the language by working 2-5 "Learn C# in 30 days" type books cover to cover.
  
• Do a dozen on-line tutorial projects where you build what you're told to build, the way you are told to build it WITH AN EXPLANATION OF WHY so you can learn.
  
• Learn to plan before you type.
  
• THEN you start designing software with a purpose.

I don't learn from reading books: I learn by doing.

Spoiler

Total honesty here: That is either B.S., you haven't really tried, or this is the wrong career field for you so bail out now.
You can try to learn C# by dismantling snippets and googling terms - basically you can take a hit-n-miss, shotgun approach. But honestly, just typing away and seeing what pops up in Intellisense is going to make your self-education take 20 years. You can learn by trying to reverse engineer the language through banging on the keyboard experimentation - or you can learn by doing the tutorials and following a good "How to learn C#" book. There are so many great "How do I build my first application" tutorials on the web... There are dozens of "Learn C# in 21 days", "My first C# program" type books at your local book seller or even public library.

I'll tell you from experience that just fumbling around in the dark and trying to teach yourself with no guidance doesn't work. Its like stumbling across a Harrier Jump Jet and trying to teach yourself how to fly with no background in piloting: You simply lack any groundwork to start from. How can you lay out your own training course if you don't already know the material? Would you go to a university where the teacher says "I don't know any of this but we'll fumble through it together?"

Newbie/Rookie said:

I have little/no programming experience but I need to write a program by Friday that does XYZ.

Spoiler

You need to start there. I can't say "I have little experience in speaking Russian, but I have been assigned to write a mystery novel in Russian. Can you help me?"

We can help you by saying "First learn basic programming and the language of C#. Then take on assignments." Could someone here write this program for you? Sure. Could someone here map out all the processes you need to follow and do the Software Design part of this in the slim hope you could code it from there? Sure. But we don't volunteer to do the job that you're either getting paid for, or getting a grade for. You may want to read this.

For now, just work on the lessons. Do a self-teaching book from cover to cover. Then consider writing a program.

Don't try to create a useful working program to fit a need of yours (or a for-pay contract) as your introduction to coding project. When you are learning to code you don't know enough to code a program, let alone know how to engineer the architecture of a program. It would be like saying "I don't know how to read sheet music, or play an instrument. I think I'll write a 3 act opera as my first learning experience."

I don't say this to be mean. We've seen lots of new coders take this approach and we know it doesn't work. Trying to design your own programs before you understand the basics of the code language you've chosen just leads to problems, frustrations, and 'swiss-cheese' education (lots of holes).

---

Resources, references and suggestions for new programmers.

---

Spoiler

Some of the tutorials below may not be in your chosen program language {C#, Java etc.} But the conceptual stuff of classes, object oriented design, events etc. are not language specific and should give you enough guidance in theory of program development for you to be able to look-up specific code example in your chosen coding language.


Free resources:

Spoiler

• We have a tutorials section and a Learning C# series of articles.
  
• MSDN Press - Free books
  
• There are numbers How-To videos on YouTube. Try this search: C# lesson 1

Articles that I constantly send people to - Good place to start.

• Learning C# series
  
• Understanding the common errors
  
• Bulding an application - Part 1
  
• Building an application - Part 2
  
• Quick and easy custom events
  
• Passing values between forms/classes ('How do I get Form1 to talk to Form1?')
  
• Separating data from GUI - PLUS - serializing the data to XML

Further debugging of your own code so you aren't asking others to do it for you:

Spoiler

• Debugging tutorial
  
• Debugging tips
  
• Debugging in detail
  
• Great debugging tips
  
• It still doesn't work, article

Writing a text file is always one of the first things people want to do, in order to store data like high-scores, preferences and so on.
Writing a text file tutorial.
Reading a text file tutorial.
.Split()ing a string

The stages of asking for homework help on a forum


Thread with example WPF window using binding and a UserControl with properties

Beginner:

• C# learning series right here on Dream in code
  
• MSDN Framework Development Guide
  
• C# Reading list by Eric Lipert
  
• C# Fundamentals: Development for absolute beginners (video series)
  
• Build a Program Now! in Visual C# by Microsoft Press, ISBN 0-7356-2542-5 is a terrific book that has you build a Windows Forms application, a WPF app, a database application, your own web browser.

Martyr2's mega project ideas list is a great place to start on developmental projectst that you can learn from; rather than trying to make something complex like a game as a self-teaching tool {that never works for anyone}

• Visual Studio Keyboard Shortcuts
  
• D.I.C. C# Resource page Start here
  
• Intro to C# online tutorial then here...
  
• C# control structures then here.
  
• MSDN Beginner Developer video series
  
• MSDN video on OOP principals, making classes, constructors, accessors and method overloading
  
• MSDN Top guideline violations, know what to avoid before you do it.
  
• Design patterns as diagrams

I hate sending people to another site when we have such good tutorials here, but this series shouldn't be overlooked.

• Programming OOP in C# - Part 1
  
• Programming OOP in C# - Part 2
  
• Programming OOP in C# - Part 3
  
• Programming OOP in C# - Part 4
  
• Programming OOP in C# - Part 5

Have you seen the 500+ MSDN Code Samples? They spent a lot of time creating samples and demos. It seems a shame to not use them.



Intermediate:

• OOP design patterns
  
• Microsoft Events (webcasts and podcasts)
  
• WPF version (WPF-MVVM data binding)
  
• Decouple your multi-threaded work from the GUI so forms don't hang
  
• Working with environmental variables
  
• 'Why do we use delegates?' thread
  
• And everyone always wants to connect to a database, right out of the gate so Database tutorials right here on DIC
  
• C# Cookbooks
  
• Are a great place to get good code, broken down by need, written by coding professionals. You can use the code as-is, but take the time to actually study it. These professionals write in a certain style for a reason developed by years of experience and heartache.

Everyone:

• Microsoft Visual Studio Tips, 251 ways to improve your productivity, Microsoft press, ISBN 0-7356-2640-5 Has many, many great, real-world tips that I use all the time.
  
• MSDN C# Developers Center with tutorials
  
• Welcome to Visual Studio
  
• Free editions of Visual Studio 2010
  
• Student editions of Visual Studio

Some of my common tips (some may apply more than others to your specific style):

• Take the extra 3 seconds to rename your controls each time you drag them onto a form. The default names of button1, button2... button54 aren't very helpful. If you rename them right away to something like btnOk, btnCancel, btnSend etc. it helps tremendously when you make the methods for them because they are named after the button by the designer.btnSend_Click(object sender, eventargs e) is a lot easier to maintain than button1_click(object sender, eventargs e)
  
  
• You aren't paying for variable names by the byte. So instead of variables names of a, b, c go ahead and use meaningful names like [font="Courier New"]index, timeOut, row, column and so on. You should avoid 'T' for the timer. Amongst other things 'T' is commonly used throughout C# for Type and this will lead to problems. There are naming guidelines you should follow so your code confirms to industry standards. It makes life much easier on everyone around you, including those of us here to help. If you start using the standards from the beginning you don't have to retrain yourself later.
  You might want to look at some of the naming guidelines. Its a lot easier to start with good habits than to break bad habits later and re-learn.
  
  
  • Guidelines for names
    
  • Naming guidelines
    
  • Design guidelines for classes
  
  
  
• Don't use your GUI objects as your variable. In other words don't keep referencing TextBox4.Text everyplace. TextBox4.Text is not a variable or property. The GUI is on its own thread so as soon as you start doing multi-threading you're screwed because your worker thread can't access the GUI elements. Use properties.
  
  
• Try to avoid having work actually take place in GUI control event handlers. It is better to have the GUI handler call other methods so those methods can be reused and make the code more readable. This is also how you can send parameters rather than use excessive global variables. Get in this habit even if you are using WinForms because WPF works a lot under the idea of "commands" and this will get you working towards that. Think of each gester, control click, menu option etc. as a command to do something such as a command to SAVE. It doesn't matter where the command comes from, all sources should point at the same target to do the actual saving.
  
  Spoiler

  
  

  // All of this different triggering mechinisms call the same single [il]SavePreferences()[/il] method
  
  btnSave(object sender, eventargs e)
  {
      SavePreferences(preferencesPath);
  }
  
  <KeyboardShortcut control+s bound to save>
  <Touchscreen guesture swiping from lowerleft to upperright bound to save>
  
  SaveMenuItem(object sender, eventargs e)
  {
      SavePreferences(@"C:\prefs\test.txt");
  }
  
  SaveContextMenu(object sender, eventargs e)
  {
      SavePreferences();// No parameter method overload
  }
  
  FormMain_Closing(object sender, eventargs e)
  {
      if (IsDirty) SavePreferences();
  }
  

  
  
  
• Don't replace lines of code that don't work. Instead comment them out and put your new attempts below that. This will keep you from re-trying the same ideas over and over. Also, when you come back to us saying "I've tried this 100 different ways and still can't get it", we can actually see what you tried. So often a failed attempt is very very close and just needs a little nudge in the right direction. So if we can say "See what you did in attempt 3... blah blah" it helps a lot
  
  
  Spoiler

  // Try #1 - May 1, 0900hrs
  //    code
  //    code  
  //    code
  // Try #2 - May 2, 1700hrs   Okay, plan B.  What if I do it *this* way
  //    code
  //    code  
  //    code
  // Try #14 - May 3, 0500hrs after 5 cans of RedBull.  Maybe I should get some sleep. I can't think of anything else but this last idea
      code
      code  
      code
  
  

  
  If you are using Visual Studio you can select a block of lines and hit control+k control+c (Kode Comment) to comment it out. control+k control+u (Kode Uncomment) to uncomment a selected block.
  
  
  
• You have to program as if everything breaks, nothing works, the cyberworld is not perfect, the attached hardware is flakey, the network is slow and unreliable, the harddrive is about to fail, every method will return an error and every user will do their best to break your software. Confirm everything. Range check every value. Make no assumptions or presumptions.
  
  
• I strongly suggest installing VMware or some other virtualization technology on your development PC so you can create a couple virtual computers for testing. This would allow you to debug and test inside: WinXP32, XP64, Vista, Win7x32, Win7x64... etc. without having to actually have 5 physical PC's. Visual Studio will let you send the debug directly into one of these virtual machines so you can watch it operate, check its variables, see the crashes and so on just as if it were debugging on your real machine.
  
  
• This can't be stressed enough in today's world of cell phone messaging:
  Don't use txt/sms/leet/T9 speak like: dnt no wut i m do-n, coz, al gud, b4, ny1, sum1, u r, and so on like this guy. Its completely disrespectful to the senior coding professionals that volunteer here to mentor you.
  
  
  Spoiler

  dis not b d'hood dawg... You are sitting at a real keyboard with a real monitor, not a cell phone. You are not here texting your high school posse to come to your kegger after their shift at Taco Bell. You are here asking for help from senior coding professionals who graciously donate their valuable time to helping the next generation of coders with their chosen craft. Please try to show them, yourself and the industry some respect by writing at least at an eighth grade level. (IE: English not ebonics or SMS, real words, punctuation and so on). If you can't take your own problem/question seriously enough to write like an adult, then why would you expect anyone else to take it seriously?
  
  When you write a post you are presenting yourself. Your writing style is all you have to show others who you are and what you stand for. When I see posts filled with lack of capitalization, SMS text like 'Urself', lack of punctuation and so on; what I see is someone who just doesn't care to make even an eighth grade presentation of themselves. I also see that you feel we are not worth the effort. Posts that look like this show that you don't feel the person you are talking to is worth speaking to as an adult. If you show this level of contempt or apathy towards someone you are asking for help how can you expect to be taken seriously or expect to receive that expert's fullest attention and time to help you?

2. Well, yeah duh your age will matter. If you're 12 you're not getting hired. If you are 80, you're not getting hired.

3. Probably. It seems everyone has to have some condition now days. My suggestion is get passed it and don't try to use it as a crutch or reason why you need special consideration. As soon as you do that you've just labeled yourself as too much trouble, because then next guy applying for your job doesn't need a dedicated handler to keep them on task. Employers want people that can focus on a task and be self managing; not candidates for "short attention-span theater".

4. Degree shows you can sit through classes and learn at a much slower pace than others. But probably a little less scattered approach. Though in the end you'll take 4 years to learn about the same amount at 9 months with a couple good books. But degrees tend to garner higher wages once you get past the whole 'rookie' phase of your employment, and probably be a step towards your initial hiring. I'd suggest you learn at the faster self-taught pace and do the schooling just to get the paper. By the time you have the certificate you should also have a portfolio built up of programs you have made and sold to small companies in your area as well as contracts through places like vWorker.


From my FAQ list - these seem to fall in line with your thread:

• Q: What is the best programming language/OS? What programming language/OS should I learn?
  A:
  Spoiler

  All of them. And none of them. You might as well be asking "What is the best kind of vehicle?" Because the answer for both questions is "It depends on your needs and what personally suites you the best." C, C++, C#, Objective-C, Cocoa, F#, Visual Basic, Python, JAVA...
  
  Are all good languages. They all have their pros and cons. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. Some have stronger footholds in some markets than others. Do you want to write for iPhone/iPad then you need Objective-C. Do you want to write for generic mobile phone use then you need JAVA. And so on. If you have no idea what area of programming you want to move to (Gaming, Financial, Windows, Macintosh, Cell phones) then nobody can advise you on a language. Personally, I would point you to C# because, like it or not, Microsoft owns the desktop computer market and C# will teach you good habits of design, OOP (Object Oriented Programming) design, inheritance and so on: Concepts that translate well to all other OOP languages.
  
  The OS is a by-product of the type of coding you want to do, which in turn dictates the language you need, which then decides the operating system you probably need. Not the other way around.
  
  Do you want to code apps for iOS devices like the iPad and iPhone? Then you need a Macintosh to do it right. Are you hankering to do machine vision programming? Industrial robot control? Financial applications?
  
  What are your programming goals? Do you want to market $9.99 desktop applications to the masses? Do you want to make control systems for helicopters? XBox games requires the .NET XNA framework so you are now in Windows. Do you want to do embedded controls for automotive computers? Do you just love MS Office and love to make extensions for it? Do you want to work on web apps or desktop apps or mobile apps?
  
  Do you now see why we can't even begin to tell you what is best for you? Only you know what you like and what you don't like. Only you know what area of programming is interesting to you. If you ask me for advice I might tell you video processing for the movie industry is great so you should get a Mac. Someone else is going to tell you cool stories of working on CSI lab equipment so you should do C embedded stuff.
  
  The short answer for this question is: Get in touch with your own wants and needs then think for yourself.
  
  Join these discussions on the topic:
  Which coding language?
  VB6 is dead
  C# or C++?
  
  
  
  
• Q: What language should I learn so I can be employable in the future? What's the future of software engineering? What should I study so I can be successful working at home?
  A:
  Spoiler

  Yeah, you're sparking a "Which language is best?" war.
  
  This has been covered so many times here. The short answer is:
  
  They are all good, and they are all bad. You need the right tool for the job. You don't build desktop application in HTML. You have to decide what area of programming you want to do. You talk about "contract work" like it is all the same. That's like saying "Plastics". There are 100,000 different kinds. If you want to code for Xbox games you use a different language and IDE than you do for iPad games. So you need to pick an area of coding you want to work in, then determine what tools are used for that.
  
  As for the questions about "what will be useful in the future?"... We aren't fortune tellers. If we had a crystal ball that told us the future of computing software engineers wouldn't be in the unemployment lines along side welders. And if the senior developers looking for work had that crystal ball, frankly they wouldn't be telling kids fresh out of school what areas to go to so as to create even more competition for those rare jobs.
  
  I think you need to recognize the that software engineering is a job in the real world just like any other. People compete. 1,000 applicants apply for 1 job. That's the real world.
  
  If you want to compete on oDesk, great. Then actually LOOK at oDesk for the desired skills rather than ask us. What contracts are being offered? What technologies are being asked for? What is the pay rate for those gigs? Can you build a system fast enough to make a living at it? Because here's what I notice there most of the time: Someone wants you to build an entire Point of Sale system from inventory to sales counter software, with barcode reader integration and full on-line ecommerce store. The maximum pay is $500. If you can build all of that in 10 hours then you are making $50/hour or around $100k/year. Which is what you need to make considering you are freelance and have to pay your income taxes and social security out of that since you are now your employer. If you can build all of that in 10 hours: Wow! If it takes you 100 hours (2.5 work weeks is still pretty quick) then you are making $5/hour. Can you feed your family on that? Not if you live in a first world country. Maybe if you live in Mumbai.
  
  
  
• Q: How do I become a programmer?
  A: Click the link
  
  
• Q: I'm not really sure what I want to do with my future? Do you guys like programming? I think I kinda like math and games and computers? What should I do or study?
  A:
  Spoiler

  
  You are asking a very vague, generalize question about a broad topic.
  You might as well be asking... What is the best kind of vehicle to buy? Or what is the best kind of plastic to make? It all depends on your needs... Your area of business.
  
  If you are interested in embedded devices like computers that control automobile engines it is still programming - but it is entirely different to writing a point of sale program meant to be used as a self-service kiosk like you see at Home Depot. And that is entirely different to writing a program that is meant to be used on a mobile platform.
  
  You need to make a decision about what kind of programming, what area of interest, what industry you want to work in, before you can worry about the specifics of which language and OS and platform.
  Which Language Should I Learn?
  DIC Tutorials Section
  Good thread on the topic
  Get experience while you find yourself
  
  
  
• Q: What's your installation like? What sofware do you use? What are your Visual Studio extensions?
  A:
  Spoiler

  
  

  • Host Operating System - 16gig, quadcore, 3x24" Dell LCDs at 1920x1200 (2 landscape, 1 portrait)
    
    • 20 times of on-line update/reboot cycle
      
    • Device Drivers
    • AVG antivirus
      
    • VMware workstation
    
    
    • VM Operating System
      
      • 20 times of on-line update/reboot cycle
        
      • Device Drivers
        
      • Visual Studio
        
        • ReSharper
          
        • Dotfuscator
          
        • CodeMaid
          
        • XAML regions
          
        • XAML code cleanup
          
        • InstallShield
        
        
      • Expression blend studio
        
      • MS Office
        
      • SnagIt
        
      • Safari
        
      • iTunes
        
      • Fences
        
      • Yahoo messenger
        
      • FoxIt PDF reader
        
      • AnyDVD (I have DVDs from 3 different regions)
        
      • TightVNC
        
      • Dropbox
        
      • AVG anti-virus
        
      • Quicken
        
      • Canon RAW codec
        
      • Shark007 codec pack for Media Center
        
      • Another 20 rounds of on-line update/reboot
        
      • Take a snapshot of the VM machine for easy restoration

  
  
  That is my entire install
  
  
  
  
  
  
• So you want to be a game programmer...
  
  
• Q:How do I stay a free lance coder for a living?
  A:http://justcreatived...eelancing-life/
  
  
• Q: How do I become a better coder?
  Read this, and practice a lot.
  How to be a better coder
  
  
• Q: Are there any resources for small C# projects a novice to become a better coder?
  A:
  Spoiler

  There is a novice projects thread here on DIC. But here's my advice whenever this comes up:
  
  Look around. Anyone who can't find a dozen projects a day by just walking through life, is doing so with their eyes closed to the world.
  

  • Do you like the weather? What about a program to get the various weather reports from different web sites?
    
    Or to integrate with one of the numerous USB weather station hobby kits on the market?
    
  • Do you like the run? What about a program to log your runs, routes and progress?
    
  • Do you like movies? What about a program to catalog all your DVD's and AVI's?
    
  • Do you like photography? What about a program to browse your images, assign tags and GPS?
    
  • Do you like shooting? What about a program to track your aim and improvement?
    
  • What about every time you walk into a business and someone says "Oh, I'm sorry. The computers are slow/suck.
    
    This is going to take 10 minutes and 25 screens." Sounds like an opportunity to make and maybe even sell them a new program. So go home and make it first before you open your mouth. If you succeed in something great. If you fail, then you know where to study more and you haven't embarrassed yourself.

  
  
  What about every time you walk into a business and someone says "Oh, I'm sorry. The computers are slow/suck. This is going to take 10 minutes and 25 screens." Sounds like an opportunity to make and maybe even sell them a new program. So go home and make it first before you open your mouth.
  
  If you succeed in something great. If you fail, then you know where to study more and you haven't embarrassed yourself.
  
  Go to any of the on-line coder for hire sites. Read the new contract descriptions. DON'T BID ON THEM. Just read them. This will tell you what is requested by employers so you know where you have the potential to make money, and tell you where you should study. Then pick a project and build it. TRACK YOUR TIME. If you don't know how
  
  long it takes you to build a project then you won't be able to bid on contracts. If you bid $50 for 50 hours of work you're going to starve to death. Again, building projects just to learn the technology and learn your own speed and weaknesses is something we all do/did and you need to do too. Once you can build a project just for the learning experience, fast enough that you could have made a competitive bid... Now you can start considering actually bidding on new contracts that are in your skill set.
  
  
  
  
• Q: How do I sell the software I've developed?
  A:http://www.dreaminco...m_notifications
  
  
• Q: How do I decide how much to charge for my application?
  A: Read this
  A lot of questions about freelancing were covered in the Q&A with the Experts thread
  
  
• Q: How do I deploy my program / Make an installer?
  A: C# application deployment project
  Include the smallest .NET possible

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[legion1202]

wow... A lot of info... Thanks a lot!!!