US: Copyright Alert System kicks in..

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53 Replies - 4018 Views - Last Post: 08 March 2013 - 12:54 PM

#16 lordofduct  Icon User is offline

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Re: US: Copyright Alert System kicks in..

Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:06 AM

View Postno2pencil, on 27 February 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

View Postlordofduct, on 27 February 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

...snip

& the amount of privacy that you pay for should (should) be provided to you in writing by your isp. If that changes, change isps. This is why I was against sopa. It removed the ability of isps to provide their own level of whatever. Should this level of monitoring change that, then I would be against it as well.


2 problems with that.

1) there isn't many options of ISPs in many areas. Only 2 here, one of which is down right horrible.

2) The "Copyright Alert System", the thing this thread is about, isn't an ISP private system. It's a government sponsored thing... again removing choice.

I'm not talking about some other system. I'm talking about the subject on hand.

This post has been edited by lordofduct: 27 February 2013 - 11:07 AM

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#17 Mikhail  Icon User is offline

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Re: US: Copyright Alert System kicks in..

Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:27 PM

Guess I made the right choice switching back to RCN as Comcast once threatened to suspend my service several times for allegedly uploading open source software onto torrent sites. Idiots, idiots everywhere.
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#18 BenignDesign  Icon User is offline

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Re: US: Copyright Alert System kicks in..

Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:32 PM

View Postbaavgai, on 27 February 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

The problem isn't that they'll come and lock up modi


Posted Image
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#19 no2pencil  Icon User is online

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Re: US: Copyright Alert System kicks in..

Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:55 PM

View Postlordofduct, on 27 February 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

View Postno2pencil, on 27 February 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

View Postlordofduct, on 27 February 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

...snip

& the amount of privacy that you pay for should (should) be provided to you in writing by your isp. If that changes, change isps. This is why I was against sopa. It removed the ability of isps to provide their own level of whatever. Should this level of monitoring change that, then I would be against it as well.

2) The "Copyright Alert System", the thing this thread is about, isn't an ISP private system. It's a government sponsored thing... again removing choice.

Yeah see, that's crap. Removing privacy just to thwart copyrights. That I don't agree with. If one could choose isps to avoid it, fine whatever, then one company is just being dicks. But yeah I certainly don't agree with everyones privacy being given up.
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#20 Koyume  Icon User is offline

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Re: US: Copyright Alert System kicks in..

Posted 27 February 2013 - 01:24 PM

And yet, that's what is happening. All privacy is being given up with this. But the "industry" does have a right to know where their stuff is going and why. The thought always has been "as long as it's for personal use, no biggie." Seems that's not the case anymore. It comes down to greed on why this "Alert System" is even here in the first place.
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#21 h4nnib4l  Icon User is offline

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Re: US: Copyright Alert System kicks in..

Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:05 PM

Quote

But the "industry" does have a right to know where their stuff is going and why.


No it doesn't. It has a right to know who it's "stuff" is being sold to, just like a store can check my ID against the name on my credit card. But even then, they can't call the DMV and the SSA to verify my identity. To continue lordofduct's analogy, I have the right to know who stole my stuff. And if he or she sold it to a Pawn Shop (a business), then I have the right to know which Pawn Shop. But if my stolen goods get sold to another person, and he sells it, and then she sells it, I don't get a list of everyone who had my stuff. And I sure as hell can't inspect everything everyone sells or purchases to make sure that it isn't my stolen stuff. That's fucking stupid, and the fact that our government continually deems it appropriate is a testament to how corrupt it has become with regards to corporate money.

This post has been edited by h4nnib4l: 27 February 2013 - 02:05 PM

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#22 lordofduct  Icon User is offline

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Re: US: Copyright Alert System kicks in..

Posted 27 February 2013 - 03:36 PM

Why would they have the right to know where their stuff is going and why?

There's two parts to that as well.

The 'why' I have no clue as to why they have that right. It's seldom brought up WHY someone steals ever. When's the last time you heard of a court case where "Jimmy stole the booze because he wanted to party" played any role in assisting the person robbed, or even swaying the court case in any direction. Actually the right to know why is protected by the 5th amendment. I may have been busted stealing, but I'm not required to self incriminate myself further by possibly explaining WHY I did, which could lead to other crimes.

As for the do they have the right... why would they? I've never heard of any precedence set where one has the right to knowledge about the where abouts of their property. It's one's responsibility to maintain that knowledge, and one has to work within the boundaries of the law to do that.

Just like I have to work within the boundaries of the law to maintain anything I have. I don't get to steal to feed myself, I don't get to commit crime to afford repairing my car, I don't get to murder to maintain most anything about myself (except for my life, but only then during the act of threat to my life... I can't premeditate murder against someone I suspect might end my life). You don't have these rights.

You wanna know what rights you have? Go read the Constitution and all its amendments... like "The Bill of Rights".

This post has been edited by lordofduct: 27 February 2013 - 03:41 PM

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#23 farrell2k  Icon User is offline

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Re: US: Copyright Alert System kicks in..

Posted 27 February 2013 - 03:44 PM

View Posth4nnib4l, on 27 February 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

Quote

But the "industry" does have a right to know where their stuff is going and why.


No it doesn't. It has a right to know who it's "stuff" is being sold to, just like a store can check my ID against the name on my credit card. But even then, they can't call the DMV and the SSA to verify my identity. To continue lordofduct's analogy, I have the right to know who stole my stuff. And if he or she sold it to a Pawn Shop (a business), then I have the right to know which Pawn Shop. But if my stolen goods get sold to another person, and he sells it, and then she sells it, I don't get a list of everyone who had my stuff. And I sure as hell can't inspect everything everyone sells or purchases to make sure that it isn't my stolen stuff. That's fucking stupid, and the fact that our government continually deems it appropriate is a testament to how corrupt it has become with regards to corporate money.


You certainly do not get a list of everyone who steals and distribute your stuff, but ultimately it is your responsibility to find out who if anyone is stealing from you. Is monitoring data on the Internet a breach of privacy in the eyes of the law? I don't know.

I am not versed to well on this, but everything I read tells me that it is a private agreement between the entertainment industry and ISPs. How is the government involved?
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#24 h4nnib4l  Icon User is offline

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Re: US: Copyright Alert System kicks in..

Posted 27 February 2013 - 04:08 PM

Quote

You certainly do not get a list of everyone who steals and distribute your stuff, but ultimately it is your responsibility to find out who if anyone is stealing from you.


True, and like LoD just said, that responsibility exists within the confines of the law. And if I actively chased people around, inspecting the contents of their transactions, I would most certainly be told to cease and desist under the threat of lawsuit and/or being locked up.

It's hard to find a non-digital business parallel to this, but I think Monsanto will do nicely. When you buy their GMO seeds, not only can you not sell seeds from future plants to others (or even give them away), you can't even replant from the crop. You have to buy new seeds from them. And if they find evidence that their seeds have ended up in your crops, even if you didn't buy them or plant them on purpose, they now "own" the genetic rights to your crops and you must exist under that "agreement" (although it's hardly an agreement since you have no opportunity to DISagree with it). This is legal (or hasn't been made illegal at least), despite the fact that it's a blatant and obvious attempt to take control of agriculture in a disgusting, despicable manner. This is what happens when we protect corporations from people, rather than vice versa. So yeah, copyright infringement is fairly rampant (although I don't believe the financial implications are a fraction of what the industries make them out to be); but how about we place the onus on the industry to change its model, rather than allow the industry into our homes to inspect the contents of our internet I/O?
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#25 farrell2k  Icon User is offline

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Re: US: Copyright Alert System kicks in..

Posted 27 February 2013 - 04:19 PM

I don't believe in patenting life either. So, the question becomes: Do you have the right to privacy with respect to what you transfer on the Internet, which is by a large majority a privately owned network? Should it be illegal for anyone beyond the intended recipient to inspect packets for content? Routing information aside, of course. Also, I still don't see how the government is involved in any of this.

This post has been edited by farrell2k: 27 February 2013 - 04:20 PM

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#26 lordofduct  Icon User is offline

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Re: US: Copyright Alert System kicks in..

Posted 27 February 2013 - 04:45 PM

He's saying the government is involved in that it isn't involved. It's lack of stepping out to enforce existing laws, or lack of involvement, makes it adversely involved.
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#27 Sergio Tapia  Icon User is offline

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Re: US: Copyright Alert System kicks in..

Posted 27 February 2013 - 05:19 PM

Quote

He was trading in many many other rooms, including posting PS2 iso files to newsgroups. He was busted by sony's copyright protection whatever, & they alerted Road Runner, whom did whatever & he was arrested & jailed for two years.


Absolutely batshit insane.

Glad I live in Bolivia. Free'er than free!
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#28 e_i_pi  Icon User is offline

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Re: US: Copyright Alert System kicks in..

Posted 27 February 2013 - 06:53 PM

We've had notification from ISPs in Australia for a while now. I've received several emails stating, basically, "We are legally obliged to tell you that some unnamed third party believes you are downloading copyrighted material. We have not provided your details to the third party, nor do we intend to. Please treat this is merely a notification, and not in any way an intent to stop or throttle your services. Kind Regards, your ISP". Mind you, there's no point throttling in Australia since our speeds are so sluggish anyhow.

This post has been edited by e_i_pi: 27 February 2013 - 06:54 PM

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#29 h4nnib4l  Icon User is offline

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Re: US: Copyright Alert System kicks in..

Posted 28 February 2013 - 06:57 AM

Thanks lordofduct, I forgot to address that part. There's two parts to government involvement here. First, the government's lack of involvement is conspicuous in that it is not preventing corporations from making deals regarding our privacy and personal lives. I feel like that's the type of thing that government is there for. Second, government involvement will appear through enforcement. The industry is not going to just say "screw it, they won't listen" when the 6th (or whatever) warning is ignored by a big bad pirate. But 6 cease and desist warnings, along with all the data they've collected on said big bad pirate, will certainly make an awesome portfolio of evidence for legal action (civil and/or criminal). Golly gee your honor, we were watching everything he downloaded and uploaded, and we told him to stop 6 times, and here's what he stole from us. Bamcis. And the "we were watching everything he downloaded and uploaded" part will be ignored. If law enforcement does that without a warrant (and without figuring out how to claim that pirating is terrorism), charges cannot be leveled. But apparently corporations are making agreements to do just that.
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#30 farrell2k  Icon User is offline

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Re: US: Copyright Alert System kicks in..

Posted 28 February 2013 - 08:20 AM

That's the absolute silliest thing I have ever read. The government is involved by not being involved. :)

How does the government prevent two or more private entities from cooperating in a legal venture? That sounds like the "big gubment" that everyone here in the U.S. decries.

How is your personal privacy infringed by your ISP watching what you download and upload? I don't think you have much expectation of privacy in the eyes of the law. See the ECPA. This only protects you from government intrusion, as do most laws like it.

Maybe all communication to and from a person's electronic devices should be considered private information. Maybe we should have the same right to privacy that we do with telephone communication. Sounds like a good idea.
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