eSports

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37 Replies - 2815 Views - Last Post: 05 March 2013 - 05:51 PM

#16 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is online

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Re: eSports

Posted 04 March 2013 - 11:29 AM

View Postlordofduct, on 04 March 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

If the historical usage of the word is irrelevant, then that's just proving that the definition can be changed, and the contemporary meaning can become historical.


Could do. Hasn't yet.

If you point to someone playing a video game, I say what they're doing is not a sport - unless they happen to be engaging in some sport at the same time, of course.
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#17 lordofduct  Icon User is offline

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Re: eSports

Posted 04 March 2013 - 11:39 AM

I don't see how that's circular...

it's actually rather linear.


@jon

Quote

sport [spawrt, spohrt] Show IPA
noun
1.
an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
2.
a particular form of this, especially in the out of doors.
3.
diversion; recreation; pleasant pastime. (lod: sounds like a video-game to me)
4.
jest; fun; mirth; pleasantry: What he said in sport was taken seriously.
5.
mockery; ridicule; derision: They made sport of him.


Appears 3 of the first 5 definitions don't include athletics. And the 2 that do use vocabulary that implies that it's NOT exclusionary to athletics or outdoors... only that it's most often used for that.

The statement you quote of mine is contextually relevant to baavgai's assertion that history is irrelevant.

This post has been edited by lordofduct: 04 March 2013 - 11:47 AM

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#18 supersloth  Icon User is offline

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Re: eSports

Posted 04 March 2013 - 12:27 PM

you nerds arguing over the definition of sports are perfect for my new eSports league.
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#19 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is online

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Re: eSports

Posted 04 March 2013 - 01:00 PM

View Postlordofduct, on 04 March 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

Appears 3 of the first 5 definitions don't include athletics. And the 2 that do use vocabulary that implies that it's NOT exclusionary to athletics or outdoors... only that it's most often used for that.


You're simply dragging in etymology again. A dictionary looks to present the broadest possible range of meanings for a word - even if those meanings are not current usage. As is the case with most of those. (When was the last time you talked about "making sport of someone" when you were actually "giving them shit"? I imagine it would have been on some occasion when you were affecting an archaic voice for effect)

Words mean what they mean in use. Circular? No, but I'm not digressing into child language acquisition as a force for linguistic change. Go read up on it, it's fun stuff.
In practical terms, there's an experiment you could do, or imagine doing. If you bring someone into a room with pictures on the wall of people doing various things, and ask them to pick out the pictures of "sports" they will pick out football, tennis, skiing, possibly jogging or other solitary exercise (me doing pushups in my living room?). They will probably also pick out someone racing in an automobile, and they might pick out a dancer - there are edge cases.
I claim that they will not pick out a picture of someone sitting at a computer, whether they're working on finding bugs or getting to the next level of some video game.

Now there are some nuances to consider. People are very sensitive to "priming" effects. You could get someone to accept video games as sports, if you prepared them with well-crafted suggestions. But you could also get someone to accept board games, sex, or Chinese noodle-twirling as sports in this way, so I'm saying that you'd have to bring someone in without this sort of preparation to convince me.
It's possible that this will shift in time. Words do change in meaning, as you pointed out and I agreed to. This might happen, and then the word would include video games - but that wouldn't be a reversion to the older meaning at all. It would be a newer meaning which would share some overlap with the older one. Languages never revert - again, see child language acquisition to understand why this is a basic primitive of historical linguistics.
Last nuance: cultural forces shape our language. If some sports network started to show video game tournaments regularly alongside "real" sports, this would likely speed the adoption of this usage tremendously. But the adoption of this would still proceed by attrition: it would be adopted in diminishing likelihood propotional to a speaker's age, and it would achieve broader acceptance as that older, established form died out along with the speakers who used it.

This is how the term narrowed, and this is how it will broaden, because that's how language changes.
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#20 supersloth  Icon User is offline

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Re: eSports

Posted 04 March 2013 - 01:10 PM

my girlfriend calls it 'sportsball'

that's it.
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#21 baavgai  Icon User is offline

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Re: eSports

Posted 04 March 2013 - 01:35 PM

View Postjon.kiparsky, on 04 March 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

I claim that they will not pick out a picture of someone sitting at a computer, whether they're working on finding bugs or getting to the next level of some video game.


If they were wearing a crash helmet, goggles, and clutching a game controller with all the focused intent of a NASCAR racer about to hit a wall, you might get someone to buy it.

Also, if you had a gamer sympathizer, they could skew the model.

Granted, it's unlikely. :P
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#22 creativecoding  Icon User is offline

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Re: eSports

Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:35 PM

You guys sure do a good job at starting debates/fights over petty things... I tried to limit my usage of the actual word "sport" and use more "esport", which is the shortened version of "Electronic Sports" which is defined as "Electronic sports (eSports) comprises the competitive play of video games." (source)

So, like, yeah. I just wanted to know if you guys watched tournaments or played in some. Not the definition of sports and whether or not competitive gaming falls under it.
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#23 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: eSports

Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:39 PM

Quote

"esport", which is the shortened version of "Electronic Sports" which is defined as "Electronic sports (eSports) comprises the competitive play of video games." (source)

Really? Your source is definition's source is wikipedia? Sheeeet... That definition can also be updated to also include "pube growing aptitude" and "nut sack tricks".

Boooo! Hissss! Bad source!
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#24 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is online

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Re: eSports

Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:49 PM

View Postcreativecoding, on 04 March 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:

So, like, yeah. I just wanted to know if you guys watched tournaments or played in some. Not the definition of sports and whether or not competitive gaming falls under it.


Um, no. Okay?

So, back to the pettifogging and pedantry...
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#25 creativecoding  Icon User is offline

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Re: eSports

Posted 04 March 2013 - 04:13 PM

Sorry, it's hard to find definitions for rather new terms. It was either wikipedia or urban dictionary. Either way, you get my point.
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#26 supersloth  Icon User is offline

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Re: eSports

Posted 04 March 2013 - 04:55 PM

I GET NOTHING
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#27 baavgai  Icon User is offline

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Re: eSports

Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:48 PM

View Postcreativecoding, on 04 March 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:

You guys sure do a good job at starting debates/fights over petty things...


You know, you made me scroll up... yep, still says Lounge. What's your point? :P
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#28 Slice  Icon User is offline

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Re: eSports

Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:53 PM

Would robot fighting class as an esport? Cause I watched Real Steel the other day..
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#29 atraub  Icon User is offline

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Re: eSports

Posted 04 March 2013 - 08:11 PM

I have a good litmus test for "Is it a sport?" If you can get fatter while doing it, it is not a sport.
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#30 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is online

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Re: eSports

Posted 04 March 2013 - 08:16 PM

Are you saying that competitive hot-dog eating is not a sport?
That's crazy talk!
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