[jon.kiparsky]

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Now, some of these called standards are terrible to learn, buggy, wrong, and simply unpractical for the everyday use. Think of Javascript, I am sure you had a hard time more than a single time, trying to get some things to work, looked at the code and looked correct. But, wait, "you forgot that you typed a capital L instead of lowercase l" in your document.Location.href= line, thus, it wasn't working. How can you forget THAT dude!?

Now this is a little weird. Javascript is pretty idiosyncratic, yes, and you have to understand about passing functions around and lexical scoping and closures and stuff, but what bugs are you talking about?

Case-sensitivity isn't a bug, I'm afraid. It's a fact about a language.
I'd go along with you if you said it would be nice to have better type-checking in Javascript. It would in fact be nice. Unfortunately that's a little difficult to do in a dynamically typed scripting language with implicit declarations. There's not a lot of type-checking you can do in javascript - that's the nature of that beast.

This post has been edited by jon.kiparsky: 13 March 2013 - 07:45 AM

[diebythesword76]

lordofduct, on 13 March 2013 - 06:51 AM, said:

Guess what, the world changes. It just happens the computer world changes faster.

Well, this opens a new whole discussion, more into a philosophical matter. The world changes, the world evolves but its evolution looks like going backwards. Is just that YOU, and generally PEOPLE think that the way we evolve is evolution. The fact of having to move along with world changes doesn't justify the change by itself. Don't tell me that mobile devices are really an improvement. It puts people at the service of the device 24x7, it's bombarbed by information everywhere they are, social networks notifications 24x7, trackable by his/her boss 24x7. Don't tell me those latest glasses are evolution either. Don't tell me social networks are evolution, people doesn't have a real life anymore, human relationships tend to happen now within the computer. Don't tell me that 3d-printers are evolution.

Also, don't tell me that HUMAN is in control to use or not use technology, because that's not true. I heard many times 'nobody forces you to do this, do that, use this, use that'. i.e. are you free to decide if you need a mobile device or to be in a social network for example, when millions around you are doing the same? Are you free to turn off your smartphone when 20 of the partners that work with you have it ON when they get back home? Really can you turn it OFF ?Think of teenagers for example, in the other side. Trend is everything for them. Sometimes the trend is wrong, faulty, negative, misleading. Latest proofs of human stupidity, see the viral response those gangnam and harlem shake videos created. Give me a break, mankind is lost

[modi123_1]

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Give me a break, mankind is lost

Seriously - go get some counseling. The developed OCD, the mentally depressive rut of your commentary, and your poor view of your own existence are warning signs. The rants and raves smell like a pre-midlife crisis brewing. That or an interesting Abe Simpson troll is being ran.

[lordofduct]

The world changes, but that doesn't necessarily mean the changes are good?

I didn't claim they were good or bad.

You claimed they're bad and gave shit reasons for why you believe that. Sorry, you just sound petty.

Anyways, good or bad, that's no excuse to remain here, to stagnate and not change. Are you telling me the technology is the worst direction to go? That we should keep the technology of the 80's, when you learned to program, cause why?

You find them comfortable?

That's not an argument for this change being bad. It's an argument for you wanting to remain comfortable. Just like your desire to not have to think, or learn new stuff, or have burdens put on you so you can go watch a movie.

GO WATCH A MOVIE. (a technology that benefits from this change, might I add)

We're going to stay here and keep working and changing.

Have fun.

This post has been edited by lordofduct: 13 March 2013 - 08:21 AM

[diebythesword76]

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Now this is a little weird. Javascript is pretty idiosyncratic, yes, and you have to understand about passing functions around and lexical scoping and closures and stuff, but what bugs are you talking about?

I'm not saying case-sensitivity is a bug. I am saying that when you have several pages of complex javascript written and you have a bug in your code, trying to debug it can be a nightmare. I am talking about the non-practical of programming sometimes, specially javascript now that you mention it. Think of it 10 years ago, do you have an idea the hours I spent sometimes in front of my own Javascript code trying to see why an admiration notice appeared bottom-left on Internet Explorer and basically why what I coded didn't work? Those days you didn't have firebug or Chrome in order to debug/inspect Javascript. Those are the things I am trying to explain, the fact that because you are a programmer you have to deal with the biggest shit possible, it's assumed by everyone; do things the hardest way possible and the assumption that you *enjoy* wasting your time with things that could be handled, well, differently. I.e. tell me that working with CSS is practical and you are insane; try to slice your PSD by hand with pure CSS, you can spend several hours. Unless you are a CSS guru which I am not. In my case, I still use tables for layout and structuring and use CSS to add style and everything else. But still I see CSS terrible confussing and unnecessary difficult, specially when you start to nest CSS

The worst thing is that programming languages and technology standards are created by other programmers; maybe there's a kind of satisfaction making life miserable to the rest of us

[modi123_1]

The option might be to be less in. You have an issue with the tech connections so put up a recorded message that 'The Dude is not in', and just focus on the now. You progressively more flailing posts all sounds like a swimmer fighting against the current and is drowning... swim parallel to get where you need to go.

It is totes cool you need to vent, but venting doesn't do it enough. Action and a change of perspective can help recharge. Focus on non tech work.. go build something with Habitat for Humanity.. be a mentor or big brother/big sister. Hula hoop with the elderly.

[lordofduct]

Programming languages and standards are created by other programmers...

Who else you want making them? How about we have movie producers design that stuff for us. They should know a better way...

[jon.kiparsky]

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Is just that YOU, and generally PEOPLE think that the way we evolve is evolution.

The way species evolve is by some of them living long enough to have offspring that reproduce.
The way people evolve is by learning new things, thinking new thoughts, trying new things.
Different meanings for different words with the same shape. Your complaint is that your profession requires you to do the latter.

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Don't tell me that mobile devices are really an improvement.

Okay, I won't. However, they're a change in your "ecosystem". Adapt to it, relocate, or die. (you brought up evolution: in evolution, those are pretty much the choices you have, at least until they are reduced to only one)

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Give me a break, mankind is lost

Yes, always has been. We're fucked, good and proper. The future is black and getting worse. In thirty years, there will be 15 billion people on the face of the earth, or something much, much worse will have happened. When the teenager of today lays down his tools for the last time and looks around, she will see a world of thirty billion people, or else the wreckage of the collapse. Three generations from now, human beings will kill each other like dogs for food, and the computers we're so proud of today will be curious relics of a time when energy was free, and the only thing we could think to do with the legacy of geological epochs was to burn it.

They will hate us, they will curse us when they stop to think of us, if they think of us at all. Having children, in 2013, is an act of unparalleled idiocy, or optimism, if you make a distinction.

You don't want to try to get more pessimistic than me, buddy, I've got you beat. And yet, I keep on.
If you ever get some curiosity in your head, or some ambition that reaches past drinking whiskey and screwing and listening to bad music real loud, you might ask yourself how I manage that trick. And that'll be the day you stop giving up.

Until then, it's you that's chosen to give up. If you want to complain, take that to the man in charge - which is you.

[diebythesword76]

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Give me a break, mankind is lost

Seriously - go get some counseling. The developed OCD, the mentally depressive rut of your commentary, and your poor view of your own existence are warning signs. The rants and raves smell like a pre-midlife crisis brewing. That or an interesting Abe Simpson troll is being ran.
[/quote]

Developed OCD? When you are coding for 20 years and try to be professional at what you do you develop OCD, specially regarding to coding. Of course, not in every case, but it's common, I saw many coders with OC disorders. Do you really think coders act and/or have a normal life as everybody else? The mindset required to code is absolutely compulsive, insanely logical; you can even find coding your ordinary life easily, through things that other human beings solve naturally. No, you have to THINK it, in a programming way, nearly everything. Yes, I was not like this 10 years ago, but my profession is leading me throhugh to this. Why ? I think 24x7. A parametric life, that's what I have. And the insecurities that arise when you don't have a parameter already thought of for a new situation. I lost count how many times I found myself applying structured, programming thinking in my ordinary life

I don't have a poor view of my own existence, it's coding who is making my existence subject to be miserable and poor, that's why I am trying to discuss here. And I am not depressed, I can cope with this. I am trying to find alternatives, I am writing a philosophy book since 2 years. If everything goes as I expect I will sit for the rest of my life without touching a keyboard, writing books about how much I see the world wrong

[modi123_1]

diebythesword76, on 13 March 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

Developed OCD? When you are coding for 20 years and try to be professional at what you do you develop OCD, specially regarding to coding. Of course, not in every case, but it's common, I saw many coders with OC disorders. Do you really think coders act and/or have a normal life as everybody else? The mindset required to code is absolutely compulsive, insanely logical; you can even find coding your ordinary life easily, through things that other human beings solve naturally. No, you have to THINK it, in a programming way, nearly everything. Yes, I was not like this 10 years ago, but my profession is leading me throhugh to this. Why ? I think 24x7. A parametric life, that's what I have. And the insecurities that arise when you don't have a parameter already thought of for a new situation. I lost count how many times I found myself applying structured, programming thinking in my ordinary life

Seriously.. as one human being to another... this is exactly why you need some professional help that a forum of strangers cannot provide.

[diebythesword76]

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If you ever get some curiosity in your head, or some ambition that reaches past drinking whiskey and screwing and listening to bad music real loud, you might ask yourself how I manage that trick. And that'll be the day you stop giving up.

I accept a point of view about this, of course. Now, don't tell me Megadeth is bad music, or Slayer or other great bands. Yes, I hear Chopin as well and Beethoven. I am a musician as well I had a death metal band until 2008, but I live in fucking Uruguay where heavy metal doesn't have a future. Let me know what's your perspective according to what you said

[jon.kiparsky]

diebythesword76, on 13 March 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

I am trying to find alternatives, I am writing a philosophy book since 2 years. If everything goes as I expect I will sit for the rest of my life without touching a keyboard, writing books about how much I see the world wrong

Yes, because books on philosophy are the coming thing, and regularly top the best-seller lists. Brilliant plan.

[supersloth]

i can honestly say this is not the direction i expected this thread to turn when i logged in this morning.

i'm not sure why i thought that, but still.

[diebythesword76]

modi123_1, on 13 March 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

Seriously.. as one human being to another... this is exactly why you need some professional help that a forum of strangers cannot provide.

Yes, maybe I need it. But this covers the compulsive part of my post, but the other things discussed doesn't specifically fall into the OCD part, i.e. the rest of the 6 items discussed; I don't see relationship between them and OCD, if I have it .. I see myself more as a perfectionist, but I get satisfied at a certain point, I conclude the job, and I work fast. If I didn't have OCD, in the case I have it, I still would be telling myself and everyone that coding should be different to what it is, in fact, computing should be different as a whole

Let me put you an example. Back in 1994, for example, if someone asked you a software you didn't have to worry about graphics, animations, sounds or anything else. It was all about a black VGA screen, ASCII screens, usability, speed. The good-old DOS days. Not even a mouse was required. Well, 20 years passed, if you have to do a software now you have to worry about much other things, graphics, animations, sounds, touchscreen, and the list goes on an on. i.e. see the way latest Office looks, or latest Antivirus software looks. There will be a point where the program will interact with people's brain, how far are we from that?. "The 2-clicks philosophy". Well, I don't embrace that. That philosophy means a maximum ease-of-use to the customer while also the maximum possible difficulty for the technology developer. I don't embrace making my life difficult in the name of the ease-of-use of strangers. I really don't embrace this philosophy of sitting 14 hours a day in front of a computer where I could sit for 6, just on the name of the "technological evolution"

And that's what upset me the most, that assumption that we love to make our life difficult always, in the name of our customer/boss. I hear myself talking along in a place like this where, it seems, everybody loves to re-learn his whole profession every year. Well you have a lot of time, it seems. I have a wife here and I love spending time with her on a park rather than sitting in front of a computer learning 'that new thing' the market is trying to impose me to not be out of the game; or simply having to work on the mobile-version of a site I just did because customer wants to have it run in the two worlds. Come on, life happens outside the LCD or the tablet

[modi123_1]

I could give two mouse farts about the other whining points - what I am talking about is your super duper negative self perception, perception of those around you, and and this self created rut you are drowning in. All that is jamming up your world view and self view.

Start with one part of the knot and untangle it with professional help, and see how that shifts to release the jam-up else where. Put down the computer and go volunteer some time. Help others and not just focus on this perceived conflict of you versus the world. Come back to programming with new eyes and a new view.

After starting to unravel the knot you still do not like it then look to where you want to go and start to flow there.