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#1 Gungnir  Icon User is offline

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[LINK] Ad industry threatens Firefox users with more ads

Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:05 PM

Personally, I don't use any ad blocking apps, but those that do might find this to be interesting.

http://www.infoworld...ng-plans-215154

This post has been edited by Gungnir: 26 March 2013 - 07:06 PM

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Replies To: [LINK] Ad industry threatens Firefox users with more ads

#2 baavgai  Icon User is online

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Re: [LINK] Ad industry threatens Firefox users with more ads

Posted 27 March 2013 - 05:50 AM

Not threatening, just predicting. Sort of.

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The result, argued Jaffe, will not be what people expect. "The facts are that [Firefox users] will get more ads, not less, and those ads will not be tailored to their interests," he said. "They'll see untargeted ads, which will look like spam. We have to get this information to them somehow."


I've got news for Jaffe; it's all spam. Targeted spam being fundamentally more offensive, because it makes assumptions about me based on spying.

Honestly, anything that pisses off advertisers is probably a feature I want.
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#3 Gungnir  Icon User is offline

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Re: [LINK] Ad industry threatens Firefox users with more ads

Posted 27 March 2013 - 06:09 AM

That's true, but it's also true that ads keep content free.

Sites like Cracked, The Pirate Bay, and a random little programming forum are able to keep their services free to the public despite upkeep costs because they earn revenue by hosting ads.

In the war on ads, everybody loses. Either ads become so meaningless that sites have to host dozens of banner ads just to pay for their upkeep, or the industry just wilts away and we all have to start paying subscription fees for porn again.

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because it makes assumptions about me based on spying.


In Google's defense, it's not like we make any effort to hide anything from them. ^^

This post has been edited by Gungnir: 27 March 2013 - 06:13 AM

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#4 andrewsw  Icon User is online

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Re: [LINK] Ad industry threatens Firefox users with more ads

Posted 27 March 2013 - 06:25 AM

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"The Internet was created on the foundations of advertising," said Jaffe.

Wasn't the internet up and running (and working) before it occurred to anyone to insert an advert in a page?

This post has been edited by andrewsw: 27 March 2013 - 06:27 AM

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#5 baavgai  Icon User is online

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Re: [LINK] Ad industry threatens Firefox users with more ads

Posted 27 March 2013 - 06:48 AM

View PostGungnir, on 27 March 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

In Google's defense, it's not like we make any effort to hide anything from them.


YOU don't. Though, I didn't mention Google.

That's hardly a defense. It's like saying it's alright to steal a car because the windows are rolled down. It's not like they made any effort to secure the car...

Also, the Firefox action doesn't prevent advertising. Nothing can really prevent advertising. It's content. Boom, there it is, on the page.

What it does prevent is advertiser that are not on the site I visited from manipulating my browser. They shouldn't be able to do that in the first place. It's a security hole and it should have been fixed a long time ago. Cookies are domain specific. An advertiser should not be able to do what amounts to a cross site injection attack on my browser.

Complaining that the hole will be plugged is like a hacker lamenting a patch that fixes an exploit.
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#6 Gungnir  Icon User is offline

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Re: [LINK] Ad industry threatens Firefox users with more ads

Posted 27 March 2013 - 07:01 AM

That's a good point, and it's why Mozilla is doing this: to protect its users.

I'm pro-advertising to a point, but Mozilla is doing this for a reason that advertisers refuse to address. There won't ever be a valid debate on the subject, so it's good that Firefox is getting the job done and setting the foundations for a mildly safer internet.

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Wasn't the internet up and running (and working) before it occurred to anyone to insert an advert in a page?

With DARPA money, sure. But the internet we know today -- a medium for free everything -- is kept free by advertisements.

This post has been edited by Gungnir: 27 March 2013 - 07:02 AM

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#7 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: [LINK] Ad industry threatens Firefox users with more ads

Posted 27 March 2013 - 07:07 AM

I call bs on that. Plenty of people pay for their hosting and domain names. Hell - at a low rate of nine cents a day I have a domain and hosting. That *I* pay. Not to mention everyone is required to pay to get on the internet.. either through their dsl, dialup, cable modems, or mobile devices.
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#8 andrewsw  Icon User is online

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Re: [LINK] Ad industry threatens Firefox users with more ads

Posted 27 March 2013 - 07:33 AM

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But the internet we know today -- a medium for free everything -- is kept free by advertisements.

I find this a common fallacy, but impossible to disprove. If, by some miracle, advertising didn't exist on the internet, then I believe the internet would still exist: people would still create personal sites, collaborate together to build social networks, create blogs and share information. But we will never know :dontgetit:
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#9 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is online

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Re: [LINK] Ad industry threatens Firefox users with more ads

Posted 27 March 2013 - 07:38 AM

View Postandrewsw, on 27 March 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

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"The Internet was created on the foundations of advertising," said Jaffe.

Wasn't the internet up and running (and working) before it occurred to anyone to insert an advert in a page?


The internet was up and running for about twenty years before commercial postings on USENET became an issue. (first two nodes connected in 1969, ads were an issue in the late '80s) That was settled reasonably, with a minimum of screaming, and I never saw ad postings when I was on the USENET - probably because it was a lot more difficult to create multiple accounts in 1987, since most users were on mainframes and the sysadmins had better things to do than spin up lots of accounts to soak up resources. So people posting spam would quickly be killfiled, and they knew it, so they didn't bother. Instead, people who wanted to sell things to USENET readers became valued members of their communities and put a discreet pointer to their business in their .sig file, and it worked out nicely.

If you mean the World-Wide Whatsit, that's another question, but if you mean the internet, no, advertising was at least three decades in. This Jaffe has not the foggiest notion of a clue, and should shut up talking.

View Postandrewsw, on 27 March 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

Quote

But the internet we know today -- a medium for free everything -- is kept free by advertisements.

I find this a common fallacy, but impossible to disprove. If, by some miracle, advertising didn't exist on the internet, then I believe the internet would still exist: people would still create personal sites, collaborate together to build social networks, create blogs and share information. But we will never know :dontgetit:/>


Absolutely it's a fallacy. A site like DIC would obviously exist without advertising, and it would be free, though probably some members would chip in to help out with hosting costs and there would probably be some self-taxation through t-shirt sales and such. It would simply be organized differently. It might in fact be a lot better. Certainly a site that was not so dependent on its owner to make changes would not be so thoroughly bug-plagued.
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