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#1 Zuelajindi  Icon User is offline

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What is your take on techie jobs getting outsourced?

Posted 27 May 2013 - 10:39 PM

First off, I'm sorry if this has already been discussed. This has been on my mind since I have switched majors and wanted to become an application/web dev. They say that the non-lazy candidates that know their stuff should have no problem getting their foot in the field, so to speak, but what does this mean in how companies are outsourcing their labor to other countries where they can better profit from this? Discuss.
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#2 baavgai  Icon User is offline

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Re: What is your take on techie jobs getting outsourced?

Posted 28 May 2013 - 03:38 AM

Rather old news, no?

Actually, outsourcing is not the big new suit strategy to cut costs that it once was. For helpdesk, yes. That probably won't change. Honestly, if the choice is to talk to someone half a world away or a local in prison, I'm ok going global.

For IT... computer projects are complex. Even when everyone is in the same room and speaks the same first language, having meaningful communication is often still a challenge. Add in the conference call and lost in translation and you're in for a ride. And that's just if everyone is playing fair. There's no guarantee the really cheap resource you found but have never met in person really exists. Here today, gone tomorrow.

The realities have caught up to the fantasy. IT outsourcing can be ultimately more expensive than actually being an employer that employs people.

More here: http://www.google.co...tsource+decline
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#3 DarenR  Icon User is offline

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Re: What is your take on techie jobs getting outsourced?

Posted 28 May 2013 - 05:10 AM

Well it depends---are they outsourcing to you or out of the country?

I know my buddy's multi-billion dollar company outsourced his entire department to india costing my friends job along with a few hundred other people's jobs. However his new company recieves outsourcing so he now has more work than before.
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#4 modi123_1  Icon User is offline

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Re: What is your take on techie jobs getting outsourced?

Posted 28 May 2013 - 07:16 AM

Yeah.. outsourcing's been a concern for everyone for sometime. I've personally worked with (aka trained) overseas folks for my job, and have been, subsequently, lost said job. In theory it looks good on paper, but the quality (and timeliness) of the work being churned out took a steep nose dive as did support and the risky gamble of proprietary information/processes being exposed to a less than controllable end point.

Now insourcing's an interesting alternative post the nadir of the last recession.
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#5 modi123_1  Icon User is offline

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Re: What is your take on techie jobs getting outsourced?

Posted 28 May 2013 - 10:56 AM

Quote

I mean personally me and boy are a little distraught..

Who? Who is this 'boy' I keep seeing referenced?
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#6 wordswords  Icon User is offline

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Re: What is your take on techie jobs getting outsourced?

Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:19 AM

I don't really understand the problem. The US still has the vast majority of technology jobs, and they go to US citizens. Why are you complaining about your jobs being outsourced? You have a more rich and full job market than any other country, especially in California.

I don't think a lot of good companies would consider distributed working as an equal to face-to-face. At the BBC, we don't use distributed working much because we use an Agile process with close collaboration with product and pair programming between developers. You can't do that so easily remotely. A lot of top companies such as Google and Oracle have publicly moved away from distributed working to making everyone turn up to the office every day. I have worked in a distributed team and found that you do lose a lot of information from not being able to talk to your colleges face-to-face.

This post has been edited by wordswords: 21 June 2013 - 11:19 AM

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#7 FusionNinja  Icon User is offline

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Re: What is your take on techie jobs getting outsourced?

Posted 27 June 2013 - 07:54 PM

My take is that good programmers will always be good and expensive. A Chinese or Indian programmer that is good at knowledgeable will be as costly as a American. However, with the American there is less language and time barriers. You get what you pay for, outsourcing to cheap work will get your a poorly coded project and poor support.
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#8 Atli  Icon User is offline

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Re: What is your take on techie jobs getting outsourced?

Posted 29 June 2013 - 12:17 AM

It's not quite that simple, FusionNinja. Different areas of the world have different standards of living, and there is a varying amount of demand for programmers in different regions. It's naive to assume that two equally good programmers from different countries will be expecting the same pay based on their skill level alone.

Also, I wouldn't assume all foreign companies willing to work for less than your native companies will result in poorly coded projects and crappy support. There are plenty of good companies out there, it's just a matter of figuring out who they are. The quality of the product would also depend on your specifications. If you are vague about the standard of quality you are expecting, or don't have a quality control system to make sure it's being followed, you will get a poor product. That's pretty much universal; companies won't spend a year on your product if they can get away with spending 6 months.

As for the communications issues, I personally think you guys are making too big a deal about that. If the internet has made anything a non issue, it's global communication.
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#9 FusionNinja  Icon User is offline

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Re: What is your take on techie jobs getting outsourced?

Posted 29 June 2013 - 10:39 AM

View PostAtli, on 29 June 2013 - 12:17 AM, said:

It's not quite that simple, FusionNinja. Different areas of the world have different standards of living, and there is a varying amount of demand for programmers in different regions. It's naive to assume that two equally good programmers from different countries will be expecting the same pay based on their skill level alone.

Also, I wouldn't assume all foreign companies willing to work for less than your native companies will result in poorly coded projects and crappy support. There are plenty of good companies out there, it's just a matter of figuring out who they are. The quality of the product would also depend on your specifications. If you are vague about the standard of quality you are expecting, or don't have a quality control system to make sure it's being followed, you will get a poor product. That's pretty much universal; companies won't spend a year on your product if they can get away with spending 6 months.

As for the communications issues, I personally think you guys are making too big a deal about that. If the internet has made anything a non issue, it's global communication.


True true, but in general experienced programmers tend to be more expensive; that is what I was getting at. Clearly there is different demand and rates based upon geographic region as there is differences in standards of living. I'll even give you a example, I am a programmer in a smaller area of New York and I make a decent salary. However, compared to someone in NYC who makes 1.5x what I make. However, my money goes further because of the cost of living in my area so I am happy making less salary.

This is also true, and I have heard this quite a bit. Foreign programmers are great if your willing to specify everything and break it down. One of my past co-workers actually was hired to design down to a class level programs to be sent to foreign developer teams. In my current work however, we don't have that option as we develop on the fly for clients so I think it comes down to nature of work also. If you hand-hold and are building a new system than I think foreign programmers can be good as long as its a IBM or Wipro grade company. For example, I worked in the start-up sector 4-5 years ago and a fellow team, I was in a incubator, hired a team of Indians to do their iOS app. They didn't specify the program structure or any technical level of it; all they provided was mark-ups of the ui. They ended up going over budget and it took twice as long. I think larger companies are better if your trying to cut cost.

Overall, I am not against foreign programmers depending on the work. As long as the project is well managed and you lay it out for them; its fine. If you want work done on the fly to a existing system; I wouldn't outsource to one particular team. I would hire developers specifically for the system as chances are updates will be need to made in the future.
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#10 baavgai  Icon User is offline

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Re: What is your take on techie jobs getting outsourced?

Posted 29 June 2013 - 02:44 PM

View PostFusionNinja, on 29 June 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

but in general experienced programmers tend to be more expensive


You would logically assume that, but I'm afraid the real world isn't that easy. There is no solid metric for professional quality and often the best self promoters do better than the best doers.

As to dem foreigners... I end up working with an amazing number of expats here in Jersey. One of our contractors is made up almost entirely of Indian guys. With Egyptian, Pakistani, Filipino, Chinese and Irish currently balancing out the mix. However, these people live here. In the US. Now.

This is not the same as the situation of farming your work out long distance to the great unseen. If you can sit in the same room as a person and get your point across, it doesn't really matter what part of the planet they hail from. Some contractors I deal with are competent, some are not. I've found no correlation between nationality and ability. It's usually just a crap shoot.
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