Do Development Tools Make It Too Easy

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40 Replies - 2390 Views - Last Post: 20 July 2013 - 05:41 AM

#31 Lemur  Icon User is online

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Re: Do Development Tools Make It Too Easy

Posted 01 July 2013 - 09:48 PM

Obligatory XKCD:

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#32 Leticia Wren  Icon User is offline

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Re: Do Development Tools Make It Too Easy

Posted 06 July 2013 - 03:43 AM

i think that development softwares are far more easy than working or doing programming on text editors such as Notepad. they make your work far quicker than typing each and ever code by yourself.
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#33 Leticia Wren  Icon User is offline

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Re: Do Development Tools Make It Too Easy

Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:29 PM

Development software packages are more user-friendly and easy to use including Dreamweaver because they provide you codes instead of writing each and every code by yourself as you did in text editors such as Notepad. they have made your life and work much faster than before.
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#34 Atli  Icon User is offline

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Re: Do Development Tools Make It Too Easy

Posted 09 July 2013 - 05:23 AM

Leticia Wren said:

Development software packages are more user-friendly and easy to use...

That's highly subjective. Personally I feel much more comfortable working in a text editor (whether inside an IDE or in something simpler) than in a visual designer.

Leticia Wren said:

... because they provide you codes instead of writing each and every code by yourself ...

Great. So now when I go on to write the client-side code for the markup Dreamweaver just threw at me, I have no clue what's happening. I'll have to go examine this markup anyway. Whatever time was saved is more or less lost. - Moreover, in my experience with Dreamweaver, it's WYSIWYG code is horrible. A Javascript developer will almost definitely have to re-organize things to get them in working condition, if not re-create the whole thing.

Leticia Wren said:

... they have made your life and work much faster than before.

Why would making your life faster be a good thing? You need to work on your sales pitch.
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#35 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is online

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Re: Do Development Tools Make It Too Easy

Posted 09 July 2013 - 05:26 AM

View PostAtli, on 09 July 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

Why would making your life faster be a good thing? You need to work on your sales pitch.


This is a great point - what is it about "the developer had a great time writing this" that I, as a consumer of the software, care about?
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#36 Lemur  Icon User is online

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Re: Do Development Tools Make It Too Easy

Posted 09 July 2013 - 02:34 PM

I'm lazy, I hate writing more than I absolutely have to. Give me macros and expansions and that's far more than enough. Auto completion is a beast that belongs in the deepest darkest circle of hell, considering how often it gets in the way instead of actually being helpful.
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#37 cfoley  Icon User is offline

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Re: Do Development Tools Make It Too Easy

Posted 09 July 2013 - 03:48 PM

Autocompletion that pops up over where you are typing and greedily captures arrow keys is a pain in the ass.

Autocompletion that can be called on demand to show you a focussed sample of the documentation is great.
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#38 ConciselyVerbose  Icon User is offline

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Re: Do Development Tools Make It Too Easy

Posted 14 July 2013 - 11:47 PM

I like being able to quickly format my code (I try to keep it pretty but if something gets a little ugly it's a quick fix), run it right away, and debug it fairly easily, which I understand (inaccurately maybe?) was harder before IDEs. I often write up my code in a simple code editor on my ipad (textastic), though, so I'm perfectly fine without it. I don't think there is any real harm to be done if you learn to do things the right way.
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#39 gonzaw  Icon User is offline

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Re: Do Development Tools Make It Too Easy

Posted 15 July 2013 - 11:45 AM

Most of the time you NEED them to be easy to be more productive.

You can't really expect to pay 100 developers to program by hand in Notepad++ and wait 2 years for the product to be ready, when you could pay 20 developers to program in any of those tools and only wait 6 months for the product to be ready.

Even if you are programming on your own, if you understand the fundamentals and the tools you are using it just takes off weight of your work. I.e you get less frustrated, work faster, and in general feel better about your work.
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#40 gonzaw  Icon User is offline

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Re: Do Development Tools Make It Too Easy

Posted 15 July 2013 - 11:53 AM

View Postjon.kiparsky, on 09 July 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

View PostAtli, on 09 July 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

Why would making your life faster be a good thing? You need to work on your sales pitch.


This is a great point - what is it about "the developer had a great time writing this" that I, as a consumer of the software, care about?


Because that's the guy that will be able to write code more robustly (so you end up with less bugs to experience), and is also the guy that will be able to test his code more effectively (so he can find the bugs you DO or may experience faster), and is the guy that will be able to easily re-factor his code, fix bugs, and implement changes faster so you get no more bugs, and the product you use gets more features sooner so you can enjoy them sooner and better

View PostLemur, on 09 July 2013 - 06:34 PM, said:

I'm lazy, I hate writing more than I absolutely have to. Give me macros and expansions and that's far more than enough. Auto completion is a beast that belongs in the deepest darkest circle of hell, considering how often it gets in the way instead of actually being helpful.


Auto-complete should just be used with CTRL+SPACE, which if there is only 1 possible suggestion it automatically uses that one (like putting System.out.printl then CTRL+SPACE in java or something), and if there are more than 1 give a nice little list with the possible suggestions, with little documentation about each of them (shown when hovering over them, or shown to the side, whatever), and of course order them in a meaningful way

Don't really know how you can fuck up auto-complete if you just follow that
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#41 AfterBurner66  Icon User is offline

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Re: Do Development Tools Make It Too Easy

Posted 20 July 2013 - 05:41 AM

The fact that modern software tools, be it IDEs, Dreamweaver or whatever, make the life of developer easier, is obviously a two sided coin:
They take out the pain of automating some tasks, so someone can focus on his project, and not wander around to find this or that usually unrelated to his project thing, is inevitably good but this come at a cost: developer has no opportunity to learn the "how" and "why" of the whole process, so this takes a great deal of freedom and directs the developer in certain pathways, that is shifts the whole thing to the user side. If a developer becomes a simple user of software system then what kind of developer is he? Years ago I learned Dreamweaver 8 in a technical class for web development I was attending.The first thing I did was to learn pure HTML (4 back then) and although teacher was asking to create sites using the automations that Dreamweaver offered, I was coding HTML in the code editor view and so for Javascript and after a relatively long time, I started to use the use the software to make things for me.I remember back then, we were using tables to make the structure of the page and more often than not, I was forced to make modifications to the HTML code just because the ready to go result was not the intended. That is not to say that Dreamweaver is not an very good software tool, but the important here is that you must know what is going "under the hood". I think that the same holds true for every software tool.Personally, I like programming tools and IDEs as I am not a web designer, and I think that is absolutely necessary for everyone who has a passion with software development and wants to do a career on this, to not rely in any way on automated tools, We all use them when the need arises, but we have to do our job even with the modest editor and toolchain.It does not matter what technologies and programming languages we use, as this is completely independent: it's the usual question about preferring to be a user, a power user or a developer. The latter includes all the other but the trend is to the first.
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