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#1 Mr_Fraggs  Icon User is offline

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XNA Deployment Future

Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:58 PM

Hi everyone, I just have a quick question about XNA. I know Microsoft is killing it off, but I also know you can still use it to develop games. Now, after they kill it, would you still be able to deploy a game commercially, through steam or otherwise on Windows 7 and other prior versions that were compatible? I know about MonoGame, but I'm just curious as to the circumstances for future reference. Thanks!
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#2 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: XNA Deployment Future

Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:46 AM

It all hinges on mono game, so what they say is gospel (right now).
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#3 anonymous26  Icon User is offline

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Re: XNA Deployment Future

Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:15 PM

Don't invest a ton of effort making a game using a platform or set of tools that is clearly dying/dead. It's not wise in the least.

XNA is dying for a reason or set thereof, learn something new.
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#4 macosxnerd101  Icon User is online

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Re: XNA Deployment Future

Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:19 PM

Moved to XNA.

This thread is probably relevant.
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#5 Mr_Fraggs  Icon User is offline

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Re: XNA Deployment Future

Posted 22 June 2013 - 01:27 PM

Thanks for all the help everyone! Now, like I said, i'm aware MS is done supporting XNA. But my question still stands. Is it possible to deploy a game in XNA on PC even after they're done with it? I hopefully plan to port my project/s over to MonoGame soon, but i'm lacking the know how of MonoGame to get it working right now. I've been looking around the interwebs to find a good way to get my current project over to MonoGame, but the biggest problem right now is the Content Pipeline, which I believe still needs to go through XNA anyway.

Also, I ran into a few more problems, but keep in mind I only put maybe half hour of research into it, so forgive my ignorance :P

So, if my original question can be answered, that would be great.
New Question, are there any good tutorials out there for porting a project from XNA 4.0 to MonoGame's current build? I was thinking basically all I need to do was to copy all the source files over and get the content pipeline working. If that's the case, I really only need a tutorial for getting the content pipeline working.

New Question 2: My game right now runs on a tile engine I made using an XNA Library, but it doesn't seem that there's a way to make a MonoGame Library. What should I do about this situation, as my game surely won't do well without it's tile engine! (My game is just a simple 2D game, if that makes any difference.)

Final Question: Since i'm already working on this game in XNA, would it be worth it to just keep continuing development in XNA, then port it over later, or would it be easier to port it now and continue development in MonoGame? Thanks guys!
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#6 anonymous26  Icon User is offline

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Re: XNA Deployment Future

Posted 22 June 2013 - 02:05 PM

If a technology is dead, what do you think the answers are going to be? Think about it, it means:

1. XNA will no longer be updated.
2. Support for XNA will not exist on the newest platforms.
3. If you wish to continue using XNA you are going to have to stick to the last platform that supports it.

It's a no-brainer to answer your questions - it's pretty obvious.
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#7 Mr_Fraggs  Icon User is offline

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Re: XNA Deployment Future

Posted 22 June 2013 - 02:11 PM

I realize that, but for now, since this is the first big game I worked on that doesn't just run once and quit like most book examples. For now, I only want to get it working on PC. Like I said, I do plan on porting it to MonoGame sometime, but only after I absolutely have to, or figure out how, whichever comes first.
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#8 Mr_Fraggs  Icon User is offline

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Re: XNA Deployment Future

Posted 22 June 2013 - 02:57 PM

Sorry for the double post, but I couldn't figure out if there was an edit button! (Bring out the noob comments!) I've been thinking about it for the past day or two now, on top of asking you guys for the wonderful advice you've supplied so far. I've come to this crossroads basically where I will go forward with one of two options:

1. As I've been saying, continue with MonoGame, and work from there.
2. Learn C++ and DirectX or OpenGL.

Now, when I say learn, C++ was what I started learning first, even though it was a couple years ago. I probably couldn't write a program from scratch anymore (although I did get a simple DirectX 9 window and sprite drawn back when I was diving into C++), so I would basically not only be taking a refresher course, but taking what I've learned from practicing Java and C# throughout the rest of the years I've been practicing. I had hoped either way to get to C++ one day, and I'm not sure if it's worth it now to just go back to it and work on learning that as much as I can, or to stay with C#.

Let me know which of those two options you think would be best given the info above. Thanks everyone, it's much appreciated!
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#9 macosxnerd101  Icon User is online

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Re: XNA Deployment Future

Posted 22 June 2013 - 03:05 PM

Editing requires a post minimum, and isn't available on a post for long after you submit it. I think you're now entitled to 15 minutes of editing. :)
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#10 Mr_Fraggs  Icon User is offline

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Re: XNA Deployment Future

Posted 22 June 2013 - 03:14 PM

Yep, there it is! Thanks :)/>

Also, http://www.dreaminco...2&#entry1654602 is me asking you guys for C++ help some time ago. I've (hopefully!) come a long way in programming since then, so there's the proof I have made ventures into C++! And yes, I know about learning a language before trying to make games in it, so don't worry about me jumping the gun, if C++ is the better answer, i'll be putting a ton of time into learning the language again before I think about making any games, I just like to future proof everything I put time into :P/>

Also, through Butch's advice and reading a little through his blog, he's talking me into getting back into C++, and he probably doesn't even realize it :P Just waiting on some advice from you guys before I make the jump!

This post has been edited by Mr_Fraggs: 22 June 2013 - 03:16 PM

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#11 anonymous26  Icon User is offline

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Re: XNA Deployment Future

Posted 22 June 2013 - 03:14 PM

The best options are what works for you. I don't know why people say 'they are going to learn C++ in the future', just start.

If you want to learn how to make games you're going to have to push yourself at some point.
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#12 BBeck  Icon User is offline

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Re: XNA Deployment Future

Posted 22 June 2013 - 03:40 PM

View PostMr_Fraggs, on 21 June 2013 - 11:58 PM, said:

Hi everyone, I just have a quick question about XNA. I know Microsoft is killing it off, but I also know you can still use it to develop games. Now, after they kill it, would you still be able to deploy a game commercially, through steam or otherwise on Windows 7 and other prior versions that were compatible? I know about MonoGame, but I'm just curious as to the circumstances for future reference. Thanks!


My understanding is that you can use MonoGame to make commercial software that runs in several environments including Windows 7 and 8 and many others.

You can run your software in Windows Vista or 7 or even Windows 8 Desktop with nothing more than XNA. Deploying it commercially may be a different matter. But nothing that has previously existed has just up and disappeared that I can think of.

I thought the thread about doing MonoGame on PS3 was particularly relevant here.

But you should probably be thinking in terms of MonoGame if you plan on moving forward with XNA for any purpose more than simply learning game programming. To just learn, you don't even need MonoGame.

View PostMr_Fraggs, on 22 June 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

New Question, are there any good tutorials out there for porting a project from XNA 4.0 to MonoGame's current build? I was thinking basically all I need to do was to copy all the source files over and get the content pipeline working. If that's the case, I really only need a tutorial for getting the content pipeline working.

New Question 2: My game right now runs on a tile engine I made using an XNA Library, but it doesn't seem that there's a way to make a MonoGame Library. What should I do about this situation, as my game surely won't do well without it's tile engine! (My game is just a simple 2D game, if that makes any difference.)

Final Question: Since i'm already working on this game in XNA, would it be worth it to just keep continuing development in XNA, then port it over later, or would it be easier to port it now and continue development in MonoGame? Thanks guys!


RB Whitiker has some great tutorials but specifically he's got stuff on converting to MonoGame.

Basically, you compile your files in the content pipeline as normal in your XNA project and then copy those files over to your MonoGame project. It didn't look difficult although I haven't done MonoGame, but only looked it over.

I can't imagine that you can't do a library in MonoGame, but maybe someone with some experience with it can answer that.

I'm guessing the sooner you port over to MonoGame the better, as you will have some idea what you're shooting for in MonoGame. Assuming, of course, that MonoGame is your final destination.
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#13 Mr_Fraggs  Icon User is offline

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Re: XNA Deployment Future

Posted 22 June 2013 - 03:54 PM

I think the biggest thing at this point is longevity. I want to learn something that will last, unlike how it went with XNA. I'm not saying MonoGame is going to go out the window anytime soon, as it seems to be picking up steam quickly. I also know C++ is safe to stay for a while.

As far as pushing myself, that hasn't been the problem. For the past 4+ years, I can't remember when I haven't done something productive programming wise for more than two or three consecutive days. The drive isn't the issue, I'm just looking for advice now about where to go. Even after all these years, I'm only now getting a grasp on how a game architecture is set up. (And by game, like I said earlier, I don't mean an arcade style game. I'm talking full on development here!) I guess I just don't want to lose all the progress I've made in game programming to learn another language.

I know that there's no one correct language for game development. I'm basically looking for your guys opinions on the matter, even though none of you personally know me. I know I want to chase a career in game development, with a focus on indie, which is why i'm struggling with making the future proof choice here. If that weren't the problem, I wouldn't have had to come to you guys to find what you guys think is the most future proof for my situation.

If i'm not programming, chances are that I am researching some field of programming, so I don't come to you guys without any background on all of this. I've looked through most of those tutorials already, which didn't really progress this decision anywhere personally. I'm heavily leaning towards switching back to C++ after all these years, as I feel that would be the most future proof option. And yes, I also am aware of how quickly everything in the technology universe can change, but I'm judging the facts that are available now. Like I said, i'm going into my third year of college at 20 years old, so I do have time to learn and practice whichever I choose, it's just a matter of choosing it!

This post has been edited by Mr_Fraggs: 22 June 2013 - 03:56 PM

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#14 BBeck  Icon User is offline

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Re: XNA Deployment Future

Posted 22 June 2013 - 04:15 PM

View PostMr_Fraggs, on 22 June 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

I've come to this crossroads basically where I will go forward with one of two options:

1. As I've been saying, continue with MonoGame, and work from there.
2. Learn C++ and DirectX or OpenGL.

Now, when I say learn, C++ was what I started learning first, even though it was a couple years ago. I probably couldn't write a program from scratch anymore (although I did get a simple DirectX 9 window and sprite drawn back when I was diving into C++), so I would basically not only be taking a refresher course, but taking what I've learned from practicing Java and C# throughout the rest of the years I've been practicing. I had hoped either way to get to C++ one day, and I'm not sure if it's worth it now to just go back to it and work on learning that as much as I can, or to stay with C#.

Let me know which of those two options you think would be best given the info above. Thanks everyone, it's much appreciated!



You might read this thread, as it covers some of the same ground. I believe the guy, at some point, asked whether he should do XNA or just bite the bullet and do DirectX.

I'm going to vote that you do MonoGame. I think you'll be happiest. DirectX with C++ is far more difficult and far more difficult to learn, especially if you are doing 3D.

Butch and I disagree on the path the beginner should take. Butch, like the Spartans, believes you should be thrown to the wolves and if you come back alive you'll do well. He believes that the best way to learn to swim is to dive head first into the deep end of the pool, and if you don't drown, you'll learn to swim.

I, on the other hand, believe the kiddie pool has merit and that the more time you spend taking swimming lessons in the kiddie pool, the less likely you are to drown in the deep end. (XNA being the kiddie pool in case anyone wasn't following the analogy. ;-) )

Of course, I agree with Butch (assuming he believes) that you're never going to become an Olympic swimmer by staying in the kiddie pool. There's no reason to leave the kiddie pool if you're happy there; but don't kid yourself that you're going to be an Olympian without leaving it. In my mind, it's about "being ready" to leave the kiddie pool. And in my mind, if you have to ask whether you're ready, your almost certainly not ready.

Again, I'm thinking more in terms of 3D games, since that's what I'm into. 2D games are MUCH easier to do in DirectX. However, in C++ you still have native code where you have high risk of having memory management bugs that you'll never even learn about in C#. Managed code is just simply much easier (the kiddie pool is supposed to be easier). And don't forget that you're going to have to learn at least the basics of Win32 programming if you plan on doing C++ and DirectX even for a pretty simple program. Win32 is as difficult as DirectX is. You can learn it but it's another subject you have to study on top of C++, DirectX, and any libraries you use like ATL.

If I were you, I would just try it rather than asking advice. No one can answer this question more than you can. You can download Visual C++ 2010 and the June 2010 DirectX SDK. Or you can simply download Visual C++2012 and no SDK (but realize there are some very slight variations in the code between the two when doing tutorials).

One pretty good tutorial I've found online for DirectX 11 is this one:
http://www.rastertek.com/tutindex.html

I've started going through that plus other material as I myself attempt to learn DirectX11. While I think his tutorial is not terrible, I'm finding that he over complicates things pretty bad. But the tutorial is free.

I'm also reading Beginning DirectX 11 Game Programming. I think this is probably better as a tutorial in finding out whether you really want to switch to DirectX or not.

You will see the familiar Game1 loop code in their code with Update() and Render() (or Draw). I've only gotten a couple chapters deep into it, but I'm thinking its going to help the transition from XNA. You have to realize that, much like in XNA, there's a bunch of redundant initialization code that you rarely even have to touch outside of Update and Render/Draw. You don't necessarily have to have a good idea of how that code works if you can copy and paste it. But if you're like me, you won't be able to rest until you know how it works and that will take you well off into the deep end.

As for OpenGL, personally I would prefer that you go learn OpenGL above all else so that you can go make some ultra-uber-cool Linux games. I hate to steer you away from OpenGL, because that's where I prefer that all game programmers were (so that again we could have all games be Linux games). But in some ways that's even worse than DirectX from what I've seen. There are basically no books written about OpenGL 4. There just aren't. There's Red Book and Orange Book and... nothing. Nothing. And tutorials are going to be spotty. And lets not forget that OpenGL doesn't handle input, sound, or ANYTHING other than graphics. That's not to slight OpenGL, but it is what it is. You have to find OTHER libraries to do all that other stuff and there seems to be a huge confusion as to which library to use and how to learn to use it. And in Windows with OpenGL you may just find that the best way to handle all that other stuff is DirectX since all that other stuff is built in to Visual Studio 2012 as part of the Windows SDK and is actually part of DirectX 11.

So, while I've not really done any OpenGL to speak of, I personally plan on learning DirectX 11 and then going back and learning OpenGL and the other libraries since there are several books out there on DirectX 11 and I don't have to worry about figuring out additional libraries.
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#15 Mr_Fraggs  Icon User is offline

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Re: XNA Deployment Future

Posted 22 June 2013 - 04:30 PM

Very helpful post BBeck, thank you! Using the pool reference is appropriate, as this summer I started a job as a swim instructor :P

Now, the problem isn't being ready to dive into it, it's more about the commitment side of things. It also may be important to note that I do plan on sticking with 2D for quite some time. It's not the effort of learning that I'm worried about, it's more about the commitment. If switching to C++ now would be better for me in the long run, i'm ready for that. But if it isn't that advantageous, or would be better for me to do down the road, i'm also OK with that.

I think my main problem with choosing to stick to MonoGame is that it's still being developed to be at par with XNA. I know it's basically there, but the lack of a content pipeline and apparently monogame not having the same style libraries as XNA (there isn't one, I tried, although i'm sure there is a workaround that I just haven't got to yet). I know it'll come sooner or later, but for now, it seems all the workarounds I would have to do, even though they can't be as troublesome as i'm anticipating, would be worth it to just switch back to C++.

Sigh, decisions decisions...
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