Best language for finding entry level job?

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#1 justinoswalt  Icon User is offline

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Best language for finding entry level job?

Posted 06 September 2013 - 03:11 PM

I will be graduating with my Bachelor's in Software Engineering in about 2 months. In school we touched on a lot of programming languages but never really got too in depth with any of them. As I start looking for my first programming job, which languages should I focus on to find opportunities for entry level positions? I was thinking C# and Java. Any recommendations? Also, any tips on landing my first programming job would be greatly appreciated as I don't have the experience most companies are looking for. Thanks in advance for the help!

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Replies To: Best language for finding entry level job?

#2 tlhIn`toq  Icon User is offline

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Re: Best language for finding entry level job?

Posted 08 September 2013 - 06:24 PM

*
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We've screamed it from the roof here - colleges don't teach you skills for a job. They sell you course credits. Their income model is based on taking as long as possible to teach you as little as possible so you have to keep coming back for more and more and more. Everything they teach you for programming in C# in 4 years you can pick up from a half dozen books in 9 months.

If you have little/no coding language experience and are just now looking to start learning a language... You won't have an entry level coding job for 2-5 years. Also, think about sueing your college. How the F* can they graduate someone with a Bachelors in software engineering that admits they really don't know much about programming? That's not a reflection on you, its them.

Buts its fraking annoying to hear someone say "I have a degree in software engineering. Now I need to learn how to code." Again, its them not you I'm pissed with.

I've provided a long list of resources for you at the bottom. While you are working on how to code, you still have to eat and pay the bills so work on Spanish. Then go apply with the Border patrol in Arizona, New Mexico and Texas. Starting pay is $75k/year, plus all the federal benefits. Far better than grunt coding, and better than most intermediate coding jobs, and they are recruiting hard to fill slots, as apposed to being one of 500 guys applying for that one coding position that opens up.




My standard beginner resources post - Updated June 2013


Plan your study route:
There are three routes people seem to take when learning programming.
  • Just start trying to create programs
  • Start taking apart other programs and try to figure out the language by reverse engineering
  • Follow a guided learning course (school or self-teaching books)


For the life of me I can't figure out why people try 1 & 2. I strongly suggest taking the guided learning approach. Those book authors go in a certain order for a reason: They know what they're doing and they know the best order to learn the materials.

  • First learn the language by working 2-5 "Learn C# in 30 days" type books cover to cover.
  • Do a dozen on-line tutorial projects where you build what you're told to build, the way you are told to build it WITH AN EXPLANATION OF WHY so you can learn.
  • Learn to plan before you type.
  • THEN you start designing software with a purpose.



I don't learn from reading books: I learn by doing.
Spoiler


Newbie/Rookie said:

I have little/no programming experience but I need to write a program by Friday that does XYZ.
Spoiler



Resources, references and suggestions for new programmers.
Spoiler

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#3 Michael26  Icon User is online

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Re: Best language for finding entry level job?

Posted 09 September 2013 - 07:38 AM

Quote

Then go apply with the Border patrol in Arizona, New Mexico and Texas. Starting pay is $75k/year, plus all the federal benefits.

They are paying you to shot at people, i wish i was in US right now :)
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#4 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: Best language for finding entry level job?

Posted 09 September 2013 - 08:25 AM

Also - let's be clear that *SOME* folks hold the opinion in #2, but not everyone.

If you popped out of college without programming experience then that is on you for a few reasons. First - you could have been more attentive of the curriculum you were going into, and second you should have had ample opportunity to apply what you learned in one class for another class's projects..

I would recommend an internship.... that and I would also be interested in getting a PM on what school/curriculum you spent your time with.
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#5 Skydiver  Icon User is online

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Re: Best language for finding entry level job?

Posted 09 September 2013 - 08:44 AM

View PosttlhIn`toq, on 08 September 2013 - 09:24 PM, said:

Buts its fraking annoying to hear someone say "I have a degree in software engineering. Now I need to learn how to code." Again, its them not you I'm pissed with.


If you follow the Booch Method of Software Engineering, you don't need to know how to code. You just keep drawing pretty diagrams, and then shell out few thousand dollars to IBM, and have Rational Rose generate code based on the diagrams.

Needless to say, I have much contempt for the Booch Method. The only class I dropped in college was "Software Engineering". After I started reading Booch when I picked up the textbooks for the class, I knew that I needed to drop the class and take another class instead.

Don't get me wrong, I love UML diagrams, but the philosophy espoused by Booch and his strict methodology just makes me want to throw up in my mouth. The book read very much like the "How to Write a Best Selling Mystery Novel" books that were selling in the 80's. (I've heard that he's gotten better and is not quite as idealistic as he was in his original books, but I'm still too scarred to try reading anything new from him.)
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#6 Ryano121  Icon User is offline

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Re: Best language for finding entry level job?

Posted 09 September 2013 - 08:52 AM

I don't know about everywhere else but here a software engineering degree doesn't actually mean that you will learn how to actually code. It's really just the opposite as its all about the analysis and planning stages with a few hundred different diagrams that have to meet all the formal specifications which themselves are hundreds of pages long and will bore you to sleep if you try to read them.

I don't think its right to assume that a degree in software engineering means you actually know how to program. If you have a degree in Computer Science however would hope you would have a pretty good grasp of it. Sounds kind of surprising but in software engineering here, you only touch on the actual programming side of things (which sounds like the OP's situation). There is a lot more focus on all the development methodologies and styles etc.
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#7 justinoswalt  Icon User is offline

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Re: Best language for finding entry level job?

Posted 09 September 2013 - 11:59 PM

Wow! Maybe I should rephrase my Post. This one seemed to invoke some bad Mojo.

I have coding experience.(Just not the 3-5 years everyone seems want for entry level positions) I have done steps 2 and 3 with great frequency (guided learning and disecting source code). The issue I'm dealing with is the fact that we learned SO MANY different languages in school that I'm not sure which languages to focus on. Which ones are more popular and might offer me the best opportunity to land a programming job? I want to utilize my time as I search for a job to iron out the fine details among the more popular languages.

I recently had an interview with a medical diagnostics company who uses almost exclusively C# and ASP.NET. I've heard C# is becoming more popular but this is the only company I've talked to so far that uses it. Thoughts???
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#8 Michael26  Icon User is online

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Re: Best language for finding entry level job?

Posted 10 September 2013 - 01:26 AM

C# is very popular on Windows so there are plenty of jobs for that, next is Java. I think those 2 are most popular desktop languages. As for web PHP and ASP.NET are ok.
If you do have knowledge of Object oriented programming you'll be fine.

Just my 2 cents :)
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#9 no2pencil  Icon User is online

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Re: Best language for finding entry level job?

Posted 10 September 2013 - 04:47 AM

View Postjustinoswalt, on 10 September 2013 - 02:59 AM, said:

Wow! Maybe I should rephrase my Post. This one seemed to invoke some bad Mojo.

Anytime you ask the internet what they recommend, what they prefer, it's just that, a preference. You open a can of worms when you ask for 'the right answer' when there is no single right answer.

Also anytime someone asks a 'how to get me hired faster' question, it generally has a bad feel because :

a.) There is no fast track to getting work. You either can do it or you can't. There is no 'simple' method, no 'quick & easy'.
b.) Geographical areas all have their popular langues. I have no clue what is used in your local area, or even what businesses are available.
c.) There was something else, but I've forgotten.

View Postjustinoswalt, on 10 September 2013 - 02:59 AM, said:

I recently had an interview with a medical diagnostics company who uses almost exclusively C# and ASP.NET. I've heard C# is becoming more popular but this is the only company I've talked to so far that uses it. Thoughts???

Exactly my point, C# is becoming more popular. What does that even mean in terms of your answer? It's a round about way to say 'some companies use it'. Use what languages you enjoy, & you'll find a job faster than punching a clock for something you are not passionate about. Heck, many green asp.net developers don't even think you can find work in php. There is an egotistical rift, especially when you pay for years of schooling, & some 'digital hippies' are getting work with open source tools.
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#10 justinoswalt  Icon User is offline

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Re: Best language for finding entry level job?

Posted 10 September 2013 - 12:13 PM

View PostMichael26, on 10 September 2013 - 01:26 AM, said:

C# is very popular on Windows so there are plenty of jobs for that, next is Java. I think those 2 are most popular desktop languages. As for web PHP and ASP.NET are ok.
If you do have knowledge of Object oriented programming you'll be fine.

Just my 2 cents :)/>


Thanks for your opinion and insight Michael. That's exactly what I was looking for. I don't know anyone personally that is in the industry so hearing opinions from those who are is extremely valuable. Thank you for your contribution.
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#11 andrewsw  Icon User is offline

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Re: Best language for finding entry level job?

Posted 10 September 2013 - 12:29 PM

I find the SO tag-statistics an interesting measure of what's going on, but this numbers-game should definitely not be used as a decision-making device ;)

Posted Image

(interesting that Javascript has overtaken Java..)

This post has been edited by andrewsw: 10 September 2013 - 12:32 PM

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#12 Ryano121  Icon User is offline

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Re: Best language for finding entry level job?

Posted 10 September 2013 - 12:33 PM

It's a bit like using the Tiobe language index as well. Perhaps a bit interesting but definitely shouldn't be completely trusted.

This post has been edited by Ryano121: 10 September 2013 - 12:36 PM

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#13 andrewsw  Icon User is offline

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Re: Best language for finding entry level job?

Posted 10 September 2013 - 12:36 PM

View PostRyano121, on 10 September 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

It's a bit like using the Tiobe language index as well. Perhaps a bit interesting but definitely shouldn't be trusted.

I favour the SO-tags ahead of the Tiobe-index but, yes, these are interesting stats - no more than that.
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#14 Michael26  Icon User is online

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Re: Best language for finding entry level job?

Posted 10 September 2013 - 12:59 PM

View Postandrewsw, on 10 September 2013 - 09:29 PM, said:

I find the SO tag-statistics an interesting measure of what's going on, but this numbers-game should definitely not be used as a decision-making device ;)/>/>

Posted Image

(interesting that Javascript has overtaken Java..)

How?
Javascript 437879
Java 472870
Java has 34991 tags more than javascript, unless you mean question asked, then yes javascript has advantage. Am i nitpicking?

This post has been edited by Michael26: 10 September 2013 - 01:00 PM

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#15 andrewsw  Icon User is offline

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Re: Best language for finding entry level job?

Posted 10 September 2013 - 01:06 PM

Yes, I meant questions asked.. it will take a bit longer to overtake the total figure :)

This post has been edited by andrewsw: 10 September 2013 - 01:08 PM

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