Teh "Socialism" is upon us...

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205 Replies - 6634 Views - Last Post: 09 November 2013 - 09:04 AM

#196 Bort  Icon User is offline

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Re: Teh "Socialism" is upon us...

Posted 05 November 2013 - 06:52 AM

View PostApokio, on 05 November 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

I think a single payer system would be the best option but lobbyist and other forces keep that from happening.



But we can't have that because attempting to look out for all of a country's citizens is obviously socialism.
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#197 Apokio  Icon User is online

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Re: Teh "Socialism" is upon us...

Posted 05 November 2013 - 06:58 AM

Yeah, some things about this country make no sense to me. I don't really want to get into everything but my views are all over the place so I am independent. Take care of the people first and people want healthcare. Make it fair for everyone.
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#198 Bort  Icon User is offline

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Re: Teh "Socialism" is upon us...

Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:05 AM

But they can't do that. Too many people seem to believe that helping everyone somehow magically weakens the country. Like having a country full of healthy people capable of working is terrible for the economy or something.
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#199 Craig328  Icon User is offline

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Re: Teh "Socialism" is upon us...

Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:30 AM

Um...the UK has single payer. Their unemployment rate is higher than the U.S. France has single payer. Their unemployment rate is higher than the U.S.

Trying to make an argument for socialized medicine by tying it to availability of healthy citizens capable of engaging in work that thus helps the economy is...new. I'll go ahead and suggest the ability of employers to create new jobs is somewhat more important to the health of a national economy. That won't be helped by the employer mandates and people having less money to spend because their healthcare costs just jumped.
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#200 no2pencil  Icon User is online

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Re: Teh "Socialism" is upon us...

Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:32 AM

View PostBort, on 05 November 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

But they can't do that. Too many people seem to believe that helping everyone somehow magically weakens the country. Like having a country full of healthy people capable of working is terrible for the economy or something.

It isn't "helping everyone" that I am against. It's forcing everyone to do the same thing. Now I get penalized if I don't have healthcare, & I get financially raped if I do. It's a lose lose scenario. If the government wants to help others, great. But they can't afford to, so the general population gets to pay for it.
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#201 lordofduct  Icon User is offline

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Re: Teh "Socialism" is upon us...

Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:46 AM

note no2, your argument was just against the ACA, when Bort's statement was in the context of a single payer system.
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#202 Bort  Icon User is offline

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Re: Teh "Socialism" is upon us...

Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:48 AM

View PostCraig328, on 05 November 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

Um...the UK has single payer. Their unemployment rate is higher than the U.S. France has single payer. Their unemployment rate is higher than the U.S.

Trying to make an argument for socialized medicine by tying it to availability of healthy citizens capable of engaging in work that thus helps the economy is...new. I'll go ahead and suggest the ability of employers to create new jobs is somewhat more important to the health of a national economy. That won't be helped by the employer mandates and people having less money to spend because their healthcare costs just jumped.


Well, it's about time someone brought something new to this debate :)

The ability of employers to create new jobs is also important to the economic health of a country, I'll agree there, but what is the point of having more jobs if those that exist (or are created) can't be staffed because people can't afford to keep themselves well? Both points are important, and the best way for either of them to improve the economy of a country is by working together. New jobs, and healthy people to work them works better than just new jobs or healthy people.

And with a single payer system, I'm sure some would end up paying more than they are at the moment, but surely for most, the healthcare costs would go down?


View Postno2pencil, on 05 November 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

View PostBort, on 05 November 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

But they can't do that. Too many people seem to believe that helping everyone somehow magically weakens the country. Like having a country full of healthy people capable of working is terrible for the economy or something.

It isn't "helping everyone" that I am against. It's forcing everyone to do the same thing. Now I get penalized if I don't have healthcare, & I get financially raped if I do. It's a lose lose scenario. If the government wants to help others, great. But they can't afford to, so the general population gets to pay for it.


Wasn't one of the caveats of the original ACA written to address this exact problem? The original bill said that ACA would be about providing a minimum standard of care for citizens, but that people would be able to pay for other care schemes if they wanted. Everyone gets their minimum standard, and for those people who want to feel special, they get to pick and choose their own healthcare supplier at an extra cost.

We have this over here in the UK too. The NHS provides the standard, and other healthcare companies, BUPA, for example, provide healthcare for those who want to feel special.
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#203 no2pencil  Icon User is online

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Re: Teh "Socialism" is upon us...

Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:52 AM

View Postlordofduct, on 05 November 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

note no2, your argument was just against the ACA, when Bort's statement was in the context of a single payer system.

note, I don't know wtf I'm doing... I really should just stop posting to these topics :)

I can haz no adult discussionism.
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#204 h4nnib4l  Icon User is offline

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Re: Teh "Socialism" is upon us...

Posted 05 November 2013 - 10:24 AM

*
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To say that America has a problem with its workforce being too unhealthy to work due to lack of inadequate healthcare is a bit silly. Our biggest health problems should be fixed with diet and exercise, not doctors and pills. The doctors and pills mentality is actually one of our biggest problems. How about instead of making more pills available to everyone, we make more kale available to everyone. Or better yet, teach people how to grow the kale and why they should eat it. If your concern is bang-for-your-buck investment in expanding the number of available workers, then proper nutrition and a healthy lifestyle will get you a lot more than treating the symptoms of already-sick people.
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#205 lordofduct  Icon User is offline

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Re: Teh "Socialism" is upon us...

Posted 05 November 2013 - 11:23 AM

Agreed.

Yet we laugh at the first lady when she tried to say that.
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#206 KYA  Icon User is offline

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Re: Teh "Socialism" is upon us...

Posted 09 November 2013 - 09:04 AM

Color me officially annoyed.

The premiums through my employer are going up 12-15% so I figure I'll go see what the Maryland exchange has got to offer.

I plug in ALL of my personal information and I get a notice back saying the "identity proofing system is offline, try again later".

Are you fucking kidding me? Check that shit before you send my SSN and tid bits to some unknown location. What a cluster.

All you really need is age and whether or not I smoke. That's it. Then give me a table of all the shit I can select from. Jesus.
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