Teh "Socialism" is upon us...

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205 Replies - 6180 Views - Last Post: 09 November 2013 - 09:04 AM

#16 h4nnib4l  Icon User is offline

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Re: Teh "Socialism" is upon us...

Posted 29 September 2013 - 11:45 AM

+1 for the typo
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#17 NecroWinter  Icon User is offline

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Re: Teh "Socialism" is upon us...

Posted 29 September 2013 - 03:22 PM

View Postjon.kiparsky, on 29 September 2013 - 12:05 AM, said:

It does amaze me that one of the biggest forced transfers of funds from citizens to private enterprise in the history of mankind is being objected to as "socialism". I mean, this is right in the anarchists' wheelhouse. This is what they love most of all: take your money and give it to their donors. The only reason they're complaining about it is because they know it's going to pass and they want to make some hay while the sun is shining. They're getting their way, and they also get to bitch about Obama, while he's doing their work for them? Great!

I'm still baffled as to why we don't just implement the known solution. I mean, we have people today going from America to Poland to get medical work done. Poland, of all places, can do this better than we can, and for less money. That alone should tell you that we can't afford to keep diverting American paychecks into insurance company bank accounts any more. That isn't working, and it won't work, and doing more of it won't help. We know what works, and we need to do that, and if the anarchists whine about it, we need to tell them to get stuffed, learn to do some math, and go to hell until they can be Americans for a change.


this may just be me being a stickler for definitions, but anarchism is part of the socialist philosophy primarily.

libertarians, republicans and all other people who want the "free market" can't be anarchists as they require a state to enforce property rights, and thus hierarchy, which is the main point most left wing theories try to get rid of.

overall I agree with your message though.
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#18 Michael26  Icon User is offline

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Re: Teh "Socialism" is upon us...

Posted 29 September 2013 - 04:03 PM

This may be offtopic because i'm not US citizen, but why do you have so much debate over healthcare and nothing on car "healthcare", isn't car insurance mandatory can't you get car without insurance, shouldn't this be mandatory for people too?
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#19 NecroWinter  Icon User is offline

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Re: Teh "Socialism" is upon us...

Posted 29 September 2013 - 04:36 PM

the difference is that if you don't have a car, you don't pay insurance for one.
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#20 Atli  Icon User is online

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Re: Teh "Socialism" is upon us...

Posted 29 September 2013 - 04:37 PM

*
POPULAR

You guys overcomplicate this way to much. In my country they just added some X% on top of the taxes (I honestly don't know the exact number), and the government keeps the healthcare running. Simple. - Call it Socialism, Communism, Anarchism... whatever; who gives a shit. It works. That's what matters. If pure democratic capitalism can't handle it, I'm fine with borrowing from whatever system can.

I have to give it to these monsters, though. This whole health insurance scam they've got going over there is pretty ingenious. A masterpiece of evil corporate greed.
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#21 NecroWinter  Icon User is offline

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Re: Teh "Socialism" is upon us...

Posted 29 September 2013 - 04:55 PM

We make our systems more complicated than other countries (namely, student loans, health care etc) because we need the biggest parasites of all, the very rich, to live lavish life styles while the middle and lower classes fight for the scraps while collecting debt and working longer hours for less pay.

This post has been edited by NecroWinter: 29 September 2013 - 04:55 PM

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#22 farrell2k  Icon User is offline

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Re: Teh "Socialism" is upon us...

Posted 29 September 2013 - 05:15 PM

View PostMichael26, on 29 September 2013 - 11:03 PM, said:

This may be offtopic because i'm not US citizen, but why do you have so much debate over healthcare and nothing on car "healthcare", isn't car insurance mandatory can't you get car without insurance, shouldn't this be mandatory for people too?


It should be, and it should all be paid for by a small consumption tax, but in our country, the "conservatives", whatever that means, have an irrational fear of everyone in the country having equal access to health care, because you know, if everyone did have equal access to affordable care, the whole system would just collapse, turning the United States into a failed "Socialist" state. Yeah, that's actually one of their arguments for allowing thousands, including children (Here's looking at you, Texas!), to suffer and die every year of treatable conditions. They bill themselves as the party of "Christian values" as well...

There's no good reason to not have a single payer health insurance system. Tell us, Michael26, do people in your country (If you have single payer/government health care) wait MONTHS to see a doctor for non-elective procedures and end up dying because the "gubment" refused to treat them for cancer, etc?

This post has been edited by farrell2k: 29 September 2013 - 05:21 PM

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#23 Atli  Icon User is online

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Re: Teh "Socialism" is upon us...

Posted 29 September 2013 - 05:24 PM

View PostNecroWinter, on 29 September 2013 - 11:55 PM, said:

We make our systems more complicated than other countries (namely, student loans, health care etc) because we need the biggest parasites of all, the very rich, to live lavish life styles while the middle and lower classes fight for the scraps while collecting debt and working longer hours for less pay.

Well, on the bright side, at least they aren't collecting your children at random and forcing them to fight to the death...
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#24 NecroWinter  Icon User is offline

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Re: Teh "Socialism" is upon us...

Posted 29 September 2013 - 05:37 PM

'Merica.
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#25 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is offline

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Re: Teh "Socialism" is upon us...

Posted 29 September 2013 - 08:46 PM

View PostNecroWinter, on 29 September 2013 - 05:22 PM, said:

this may just be me being a stickler for definitions, but anarchism is part of the socialist philosophy primarily.


When a party advocates the abolition of the government, when the main plank in their platform is "less government", and when their only tactic is "shut down the government", they're the anarchist party in my book.

It's an odd bunch of anarchists who spend their free time trying to enact sharia law, Christian style, but nobody ever said these nutbags made sense.
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#26 Sergio Tapia  Icon User is offline

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Re: Teh "Socialism" is upon us...

Posted 29 September 2013 - 08:54 PM

I would have no issues having 30% of my paycheck taken every month and thrown into the collective for free nation-wide healthcare. I hear in Canada and England healthcare is completely free - the way it should be.

I'm moving back to the States sometime next year, and I'm scared shitless on the hospital horror stories posted here and elsewhere online. $12,000 for an ambulance ride and a hospital visit. But if you have insurance it's _ONLY_ $5000! PFFFFFF.

Which state would you suggest in the more 'socialist' in regards to healthcare?
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#27 farrell2k  Icon User is offline

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Re: Teh "Socialism" is upon us...

Posted 29 September 2013 - 09:16 PM

View PostSergio Tapia, on 30 September 2013 - 03:54 AM, said:

I would have no issues having 30% of my paycheck taken every month and thrown into the collective for free nation-wide healthcare. I hear in Canada and England healthcare is completely free - the way it should be.

I'm moving back to the States sometime next year, and I'm scared shitless on the hospital horror stories posted here and elsewhere online. $12,000 for an ambulance ride and a hospital visit. But if you have insurance it's _ONLY_ $5000! PFFFFFF.

Which state would you suggest in the more 'socialist' in regards to healthcare?


You're out of luck in the United Backward States of America. Big insurance has spent hundreds of billions over the past 40 years to make damned sure that there is no such thing. The closest you will get is maybe MA, with Romneycare, or if Obamacare proceeeds, maybe it with the federal subsidies, if you qualify for any.
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#28 adn258  Icon User is offline

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Re: Teh "Socialism" is upon us...

Posted 30 September 2013 - 12:31 AM

View Postfarrell2k, on 28 September 2013 - 10:44 PM, said:

View Postno2pencil, on 29 September 2013 - 03:53 AM, said:

My understanding is that it requires 100+ employees, so small (very small) businesses are not effected.

I didn't figure you (farrell2k) would be against Socialism & Obama Care as you were for higher minimum wage.


Well, I don't consider it Socialism, and I am not against it, but I was a supporter of the public option. "Teh Socialism" was all tongue-in-cheek. That being said, we need a lot more of what those on the right in the U.S. call Socialism...


I agree and as someone here pointed out you have to have so many employees before this mandate takes place. I also think that's a good thing. Any business that has 100 or more employees in my opinion isn't a "Small business". I guess you would have to define "small business" and maybe in the minds of a lot of these rich Republicans in the house a "small business" could be Dollar Tree Inc.

After all Dollar Tree for example is still only 1/20 the size of major corporations like Apple, Wal-Mart, Exxon etc. etc.

In my opinion a small business is the little family owned restaurant down the street. For example in my town we have a family owned restaurant that mainly focuses on breakfast. I know the owners and the food is good but they are struggling to pull in even 50k a year and maybe 100k a year on a good year.

They probably have 10 employees if you include the part time ones. THAT'S A small business and yes they should be respected more in my opinion. Companies like Dollar Tree even can afford healthcare as can Wal-Mart.

In total I support Obamacare.

My sister dates a guy that probably has 50 full-time employees and he makes anywhere from 500k to a million a year in Net Income for his roofing business. I'm not exaggerating. Most business that have 100 or more employees quite likely have very rich owners that are likely millionaires or better. Giving their employees some healthcare should be the least of their concerns.

If they are so greedy that this is a big deal to them then please someone give me a list of these big businesses so I can try my best not to go to them.

This post has been edited by adn258: 30 September 2013 - 12:36 AM

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#29 Michael26  Icon User is offline

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Re: Teh "Socialism" is upon us...

Posted 30 September 2013 - 01:50 AM

View Postfarrell2k, on 30 September 2013 - 02:15 AM, said:

View PostMichael26, on 29 September 2013 - 11:03 PM, said:

This may be offtopic because i'm not US citizen, but why do you have so much debate over healthcare and nothing on car "healthcare", isn't car insurance mandatory can't you get car without insurance, shouldn't this be mandatory for people too?


It should be, and it should all be paid for by a small consumption tax, but in our country, the "conservatives", whatever that means, have an irrational fear of everyone in the country having equal access to health care, because you know, if everyone did have equal access to affordable care, the whole system would just collapse, turning the United States into a failed "Socialist" state. Yeah, that's actually one of their arguments for allowing thousands, including children (Here's looking at you, Texas!), to suffer and die every year of treatable conditions. They bill themselves as the party of "Christian values" as well...

There's no good reason to not have a single payer health insurance system. Tell us, Michael26, do people in your country (If you have single payer/government health care) wait MONTHS to see a doctor for non-elective procedures and end up dying because the "gubment" refused to treat them for cancer, etc?

Health care in my country is no picnic. It had it's ups and downs, now is down most of the time, to much bureaucracy and corruption is main problem today.
This sums it up

View PostNecroWinter, on 30 September 2013 - 01:36 AM, said:

the difference is that if you don't have a car, you don't pay insurance for one.

Doesn't that mean you take more care about your cars than people?
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#30 farrell2k  Icon User is offline

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Re: Teh "Socialism" is upon us...

Posted 30 September 2013 - 02:14 AM

View PostMichael26, on 30 September 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

Health care in my country is no picnic. It had it's ups and downs, now is down most of the time, to much bureaucracy and corruption is main problem today.
This sums it up


Your a growing second-world country with a ten year old health care system. You are on a much better track than the United States...
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