Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

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224 Replies - 6790 Views - Last Post: 24 October 2013 - 07:19 AM

#121 supersloth  Icon User is offline

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Re: Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

Posted 09 October 2013 - 10:57 AM

  • the exchanges are what ACA put in place to purchase private healthcare
  • the white house medical unit matters because as president you are given just about the best healthcare on earth so that you don't die in office. the current president ALWAYS gets this.
  • it matters because it makes enrolling in any other healthcare a pointless and purely symbolic gesture.
  • i don't care that you edit, i am merely pointing out the hypocrisy of someone who does not like a bill because it was revised (like all bills and all professional documentation for anything ever is revised) and you are incapable of following your own moronic point.

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#122 trevster344  Icon User is offline

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Re: Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

Posted 09 October 2013 - 10:57 AM

What's everyone signing up for then lordofduct? :P/>

My point was never that he needs to sign up for it, or that he actually needs it. My point was that he's basically just persuading people to go through with it like some sort of greeter at a door. Lead by example I said.

I mever said i didnt like it because it was revised and only that but do what you always do. twist words around, and display your Large Cyber penis. im impressed really. ;) I respect your opinion and ill not insult you by acting like my opinion somehow attacked you with a sharp knife.

This post has been edited by trevster344: 09 October 2013 - 11:03 AM

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#123 lordofduct  Icon User is online

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Re: Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

Posted 09 October 2013 - 10:59 AM

Did you not read my post, it explained exactly what they're signing up for. They're signing up for the insurance exchange... the people signing up are those who don't have insurance, or they don't like their insurance, and want to take advantage of the exchange.
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#124 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is offline

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Re: Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

Posted 09 October 2013 - 11:04 AM

View Posttrevster344, on 09 October 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

@jon section 2716 part c is an example. Pretty random, sneaky, and contradictory considering passed intentions don't ya think?



Took me a minute to find what you might be talking about. Should have known, just go to the Rush Hannity blogs and search there.




You mean this bit?


Quote

(1) WELLNESS AND PREVENTION PROGRAMS- A wellness and health promotion activity implemented under subsection (a)(1)(D) may not require the disclosure or collection of any information relating to–`(A) the presence or storage of a lawfully-possessed firearm or ammunition in the residence or on the property of an individual; or`(B) the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm or ammunition by an individual.`(2) LIMITATION ON DATA COLLECTION- None of the authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used for the collection of any information relating to–`(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition;`(B) the lawful use of a firearm or ammunition; or`© the lawful storage of a firearm or ammunition.`(3) LIMITATION ON DATABASES OR DATA BANKS- None of the authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used to maintain records of individual ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition.`(4) LIMITATION ON DETERMINATION OF PREMIUM RATES OR ELIGIBILITY FOR HEALTH INSURANCE- A premium rate may not be increased, health insurance coverage may not be denied, and a discount, rebate, or reward offered for participation in a wellness program may not be reduced or withheld under any health benefit plan issued pursuant to or in accordance with the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act on the basis of, or on reliance upon–`(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition; or`(B) the lawful use or storage of a firearm or ammunition.`(5) LIMITATION ON DATA COLLECTION REQUIREMENTS FOR INDIVIDUALS- No individual shall be required to disclose any information under any data collection activity authorized under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act relating to–`(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition; or`(B) the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm or ammunition.’.


That's a lot of text, but what it says is "you can't use the ACA to collect data about people's legally-owned firearms, you can't limit care based on legal ownership of firearms, and you can't differentiate in price based on legal ownership of firearms".

What's the problem here now?
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#125 trevster344  Icon User is offline

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Re: Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

Posted 09 October 2013 - 11:05 AM

Lord it matters not, I said sign up but my point never went anywhere about signing up. That's your own endeavor. No disrespect meant.
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#126 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is offline

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Re: Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

Posted 09 October 2013 - 11:07 AM

View Posttrevster344, on 09 October 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

My point was never that he needs to sign up for it, or that he actually needs it. My point was that he's basically just persuading people to go through with it like some sort of greeter at a door. Lead by example I said.


And you also think, presumably, that the president of Walmart should take the same healthcare package he offers his greeters? Is this a general principle, or is it just one you apply to people you don't like for political reasons?
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#127 Craig328  Icon User is offline

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Re: Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

Posted 09 October 2013 - 11:34 AM

I could care less about conspiracy theories. I prefer to concentrate such efforts on things that are unquestionably of dubious legality or merit.

For instance, the ACA IS the law of the land...but the president has determined that there are portions of the law that can be ignored (some would say "for political expedience"). The employer mandate being moved from 2014 to 2015 (which is, I'm sure, entirely a coincidence that the move puts the onerous stipulation kicking in AFTER midterm elections in Nov 2014). The president appears to believe that he can, at personal whim and via presidential fiat and without congressional approval, simply suspend laws or portions thereof when they prove to be inconvenient.

I'm exceptionally concerned that the law was crafted to carve out exceptions for organized labor (which represents only 1 worker in 9 these days) and for which those same unions now are blatantly demanding even greater concessions now that they (like the rest of us) see what kind of a steaming turd of a law this is.

I'm equally concerned about how and under what conditions HHS (another cabinet level agency) has been granting waivers (around 1200 to date) to groups for the employer mandate requirement.

Along with the first point, I'm especially concerned with the cavalier attitude expressed by the administration in that they can use administrative efforts to seriously reshape the law insofar as it departs from the form that was voted on and passed by Congress. To wit (from NBC news seeing as how some seem to regard the messenger as more important than the message):

Quote

The Obama administration announced Friday that it has suspended one piece of the landmark health care law which the president signed last year.

Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius told Congress in a letter that the CLASS Act, which was supposed to provide a new voluntary long-term care insurance program, was unworkable since no actuarially sound way could be figured out to run the program.

“I do not see a viable path forward for CLASS implementation at this time,” Sebelius said in her letter.

CLASS stands for “Community Living Assistance Services and Supports.”

The CLASS Act was a significant piece of the health care bill because it helped make it deficit neutral over the first ten years after enactment, as estimated by the Congressional Budget Office. Thus CLASS helped garner the votes to help the bill pass.


Likewise of concern are the outright exemptions such as for Congressional employees (not Congressmen or Senators...this is staffers, aides, clerks, etc) where, if they were forced out of their current health insurance plans and onto the state exchanges would cause their rates to go up dramatically, which Congress fears would cause a "brain drain".

These are the more troubling aspects of this law that I'm personally more concerned with.

This post has been edited by Craig328: 09 October 2013 - 11:36 AM

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#128 TheCrazy8th  Icon User is offline

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Re: Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

Posted 14 October 2013 - 04:58 AM

Obamacare (AKA, "The Affordable Care Act.") can't be stopped. It might be delayed and changed a bit but we are one of the last few countries without a national healthcare system. It needs to happen. I hate when everyone says that it's bad for the country, how much it will harm us, yada, yada. Even though we are like 1 of 5 countries (not including 3rd world countries) that don't have national healthcare and yet they aren't collapsing.
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#129 farrell2k  Icon User is offline

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Re: Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

Posted 16 October 2013 - 07:36 PM

The "gubment" is effectively open for business again. Both the Senate and House agreed to a deal and passed their bills to reopen the government. The ACA is still fully funded, and spending levels are what they agreed to in July. After all their blustering and posturing, Republicans did nothing but cause $2 billion in economic losses per week. Nice going, morons...
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#130 Dogstopper  Icon User is offline

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Re: Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:04 AM

And it all starts over again in a few months! Isn't that great?!
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#131 farrell2k  Icon User is offline

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Re: Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

Posted 17 October 2013 - 01:29 PM

View PostDogstopper, on 17 October 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

And it all starts over again in a few months! Isn't that great?!


lol. Not one bit. :) Budgets, like everything else, should be passed by majority rule.
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#132 Craig328  Icon User is offline

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Re: Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

Posted 17 October 2013 - 01:42 PM

View Postfarrell2k, on 17 October 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

View PostDogstopper, on 17 October 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

And it all starts over again in a few months! Isn't that great?!


lol. Not one bit. :)/> Budgets, like everything else, should be passed by majority rule.


Let's start small. How about they actually pass a budget first? They haven't done that since 1997. It's ridiculously irresponsible to not do so. Not doing it allows either party to disclaim responsibility for the fiscal shithole they've collectively been furiously digging for most of the past 2 decades.
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#133 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is offline

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Re: Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

Posted 17 October 2013 - 01:48 PM

Someone pass the popcorn, this should be good.
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#134 farrell2k  Icon User is offline

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Re: Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

Posted 17 October 2013 - 01:57 PM

View PostCraig328, on 17 October 2013 - 08:42 PM, said:

View Postfarrell2k, on 17 October 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

View PostDogstopper, on 17 October 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

And it all starts over again in a few months! Isn't that great?!


lol. Not one bit. :)/>/> Budgets, like everything else, should be passed by majority rule.


Let's start small. How about they actually pass a budget first? They haven't done that since 1997. It's ridiculously irresponsible to not do so. Not doing it allows either party to disclaim responsibility for the fiscal shithole they've collectively been furiously digging for most of the past 2 decades.


I guess it depends on how you define a "budget". Bills that appropriate money for spending would be considered budgets to me, and apparently the rest of congress. These are agreed upon by both houses of congress and signed by the President yearly. Sometimes when one party wants to obstruct, he eve gets to sign multiple budgets per year.
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#135 Craig328  Icon User is offline

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Re: Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

Posted 17 October 2013 - 02:11 PM

View Postfarrell2k, on 17 October 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

I guess it depends on how you define a "budget".


Handily enough, we once upon a time had cooler heads involved in our governance that saw the wisdom and necessity of an actual federal budget rather than the current "junkie needs a fix" measures we tend to use today. They were prescient enough to enshrine their wisdom in some really easy to locate places: Article 1, section 9 of the Constitution, the Budget and Accounting Act of 1921 and the Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974.

Congress is required by law to pass a budget annually and to submit the budget passed by both houses to the President for signature. But they also know there is no law enforcement body to compel them to do so...so they don't.
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