Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

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224 Replies - 6922 Views - Last Post: 24 October 2013 - 07:19 AM

#211 h4nnib4l  Icon User is offline

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Re: Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

Posted 22 October 2013 - 01:56 PM

*
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Sometimes farrell2k has trouble playing with others...
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#212 Craig328  Icon User is offline

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Re: Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

Posted 22 October 2013 - 02:09 PM

Once the gubmint gets their collective shit together and fixes their healthcare site (so people can actually make productive use of it), I'd been considering starting a thread where people could describe their "stats" for their health insurance (family size, age, etc), the policy particulars they have now (deductible, co-pays, cov'gs etc), what they pay now and compare that to what they can get through the state exchange where they live. Maybe mention whether they qualify for subsidies and if so how much. Do a straight up apples to apples comparison. I know that what I pay to insure my family (roughly $4500/yr) would be a huge bargain in other parts of the country...so I'm sure some folks will see a discount while others will see their premiums rise.

I tried to get that info for my family and wasn't able to. I have not called the nice people to get it by phone because there's a limit to how much frustration I can absorb in a calendar week.

There are several self employed contractors here on DIC and I'd be curious to learn what their experience is. Of course, if I start such a thread, I'll lead off with my own info. No point getting bent out of shape (or prematurely defending) over imaginary numbers. This will be one of the few times we can all see just what kind of deal we're getting...as opposed to arguing over what we think we're getting. I know my family is about to get ass-reamed but I also know we may not be in the majority that way. I'd be willing to "put up or shut up" with actual, no-shit numbers.
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#213 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

Posted 22 October 2013 - 02:20 PM

You mean stories like this? I was an ObamaCare guinea pig



Quote

I signed up. I saved. And so will millions of Americans.

Honestly, I couldn’t wait to sign up for ObamaCare — not because I talk about it on television, but because I’m tired of being ripped off by my insurance company.

I live in New York State — which for several decades has had the highest individual insurance premiums in the nation.

For the past three years, since leaving a job at a non-profit organization and then exhausting my COBRA, I have relied on the individual insurance market to get coverage for myself, my partner and our daughter.

Three years ago when I was shopping for insurance, there weren’t that many options to choose from. And the plan I ended up with is expensive and, to put it bluntly, crappy.

Currently, I pay $965 per month for family coverage that includes:

• a whopping $7,000 deductible;

• $36,000 out-of-pocket max per year;

• an annual coverage limit of $2,000,000;

• a $35 co-pay for doctor’s visits ($55 for specialists); and

• a $15 co-pay for generic prescriptions.
[...]
There were literally 50 plans that were better than my current insurance -- both with lower premiums, lower out-of-pocket costs and better coverage. And there were ten plans with a higher premium than my current insurance, but with lower deductibles.
[...]
Within a week, I had settled on a “gold” plan offered by Empire Blue Cross Blue Shield. The plan includes:

• a $2,000 total deductible;

• an out-of-pocket max of $12,500 for the year;

• a $30 co-pay for visits to our primary care doctor;

• a $15 co-pay for generic prescriptions;

• NO annual coverage limit — because that’s now prohibited thanks to the Affordable Care Act; plus

• an added bonus: the plan I selected includes child dental.

This option will cost my family $931 per month — $408 per year less than my previous crappy plan and a $5,000 savings in deductibles. A big win for me and my family financially and in terms of what’s covered.

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#214 Craig328  Icon User is offline

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Re: Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

Posted 22 October 2013 - 02:27 PM

Indeed. Just like that.

I'm fully aware that there are states where the rates are astronomically high where the ACA will actually be a boon. The guy lady in that quote will save a small amount and so this is a good thing for him her. Mind you, she lives in a state where the premiums are already stupid high:
Posted Image
...so you'd hope anyone living in those expensive states WOULD see a decrease. What I found most curious is that California is one of the cheapest states for premiums. I wouldn't have expected that. It'd also be enlightening to learn why a BCBS in Vermont charges nearly triple what a BCBS in Alabama does...especially considering Alabama's smoking and obesity rates are almost certainly higher than Vermont's.

I'm simply curious to see what our DIC community actually sees once this whole mess overcomes it's own inertia and starts moving.

As of right now, I'm staring down a roughly 45% increase in my premium but that doesn't include information I might get from the healthcare.gov site once they figure out how to make that shit work. The best I can do right now is a private insurance quote via eHealthinsurance.com (which is where I bought my last 3 policies) and that's where I see the big hike. That said, I'm more than willing to be proved wrong and will wait to see what the government exchange tells me I can secure.

This post has been edited by Craig328: 22 October 2013 - 02:36 PM

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#215 belgarion262  Icon User is offline

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Re: Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

Posted 23 October 2013 - 12:55 AM

View Postfarrell2k, on 22 October 2013 - 09:39 PM, said:

View Postbelgarion262, on 22 October 2013 - 12:10 PM, said:

View Postfarrell2k, on 22 October 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

The shutdown cost $24 billion, and America is a Republic, but your point is the same. :)/>/>/>


Technically America or the Americas is the combined continental landmass of North America and South America, but your point is the same. :)/>/>


That's stupid. One is general in reference, and the other is quite specific. America is the United States of America, but a Republic is most certainly not a Democracy.


America is the landmass. It's pluralized to show that it includes north and south america, but it's the same as how Europe isn't called Europes and Asia isn't called Asias.

While I hesitate to rely on Wikipedia, I would like to direct your attention to the following link. Americas specifically the first line, and its references.

It's true that when the word America is used, it's most often referring to the USA, but just because it is widely used does not mean that it is technically correct. For example the way many people use the word "literally" is often wrong, but it's seldom corrected even when used incorrectly.

I realize this is now slightly off topic, but I dislike widely spread (or any) misconceptions.
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#216 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is online

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Re: Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

Posted 23 October 2013 - 01:00 AM

Just smile and nod. No point in arguing with the poor boy, you'll only confuse him more.
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#217 farrell2k  Icon User is offline

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Re: Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

Posted 23 October 2013 - 11:06 PM

View Postbelgarion262, on 23 October 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

It's true that when the word America is used, it's most often referring to the USA, but just because it is widely used does not mean that it is technically correct. For example the way many people use the word "literally" is often wrong, but it's seldom corrected even when used incorrectly.


No, it is technically correct. High school kids learn this stuff. I can see that this is hard for you and obviously jon.kiparsky to grasp, but America is a a word that has multiple meanings which must be inferred from its use in the sentence. The meaning of Democracy is quite specific.

I get that you're kind of slow, so I'll rewrite it again: America has multiple meanings; Democracy does not.

Don't bother with the pseudo-intellectual nonsense, because you're obviously just going to get it wrong.

This post has been edited by farrell2k: 23 October 2013 - 11:10 PM

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#218 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is online

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Re: Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

Posted 24 October 2013 - 01:07 AM

Yes, that definition is in fact high school stuff. And if it's any comfort to you, the petulant insistence on clinging to everything you learned in high school civics class puts you in, well, not "good" company but at least the company of your peers.

If you're curious about what the rest of the world thinks the term means, Robert Dahl has a pretty good little book called "On Democracy" which summarizes the views held by people who have left high school. Political scientists and whatnot, you know. People who spend their time talking about forms of government.
I know, I know - you already know everything, but it might be amusing to see what the other idiots who think they know something think.

Sarcasm aside, here's a few key points that you might want to try to internalize:
  • in ordinary and accepted usage, the term "democracy" is not limited to direct democracy, but encompasses also various sorts of representative democracies.
  • in standard usage, the terms "democracy" and "republic" are not mutually exclusive. Most countries that would rank among the democracies are in fact also republics.
  • there is much dispute about how to formally define the term "democracy" (meaning a label for an actually existing state, not a utopian ideal) and many people chime in with definitions, some of them motivated by their own concerns. That being said, to claim that that the US is not numbered among the democracies is to put yourself outside the community of English speakers. It's like declaring that Lassie was not a dog, but instead a well-trained slug. If you want to define "slug" to include collies, you're free to do so, but you can hardly expect others to take up your private language.
  • if you think these points are not correct, you might try to point to a state that, in your view, qualifies as a democracy. I think you'd be surprised to find that the closest you'd come would be Afghanistan, since they actually have a regular practice of making major decisions at the national level in something like a town meeting. As always, if your premises lead to absurd conclusions, it's a good indication that you need to reconsider your premises.



EDIT: Oh, and on the "America" point - while I think it's more than a little presumptuous for a country occupying such a small portion of the landmass to arrogate unto itself the name of two contintents, I recognize that that ship has sailed, and I'm okay with that.

This post has been edited by jon.kiparsky: 24 October 2013 - 01:17 AM

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#219 belgarion262  Icon User is offline

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Re: Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

Posted 24 October 2013 - 01:55 AM

View Postfarrell2k, on 24 October 2013 - 07:06 AM, said:

View Postbelgarion262, on 23 October 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

It's true that when the word America is used, it's most often referring to the USA, but just because it is widely used does not mean that it is technically correct. For example the way many people use the word "literally" is often wrong, but it's seldom corrected even when used incorrectly.


No, it is technically correct. High school kids learn this stuff. I can see that this is hard for you and obviously jon.kiparsky to grasp, but America is a a word that has multiple meanings which must be inferred from its use in the sentence. The meaning of Democracy is quite specific.

I get that you're kind of slow, so I'll rewrite it again: America has multiple meanings; Democracy does not.

Don't bother with the pseudo-intellectual nonsense, because you're obviously just going to get it wrong.



I dislike how despite my politeness in my replies you see the need to insult me whilst stating your views. From what I have seen you are known for this. Just because we disagree about something is no reason to resort to insulting my intelligence.

What you may have been taught in high school may not always be correct, and is often biased when teaching about the country the school is located within.

I'll accept that America is often used as shorthand for the USA but to say that USA is America seems rather arrogant, in that taken literally would imply that Canada, Mexico, Peru, Brazil and all the rest are also included.

But since the topic of this thread is not the definition of the word America, let us let this lie. I shall acknowledge that when people use the word America they often mean USA, but I still argue that it's incorrect but people let it slide for the sake of ease.
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#220 farrell2k  Icon User is offline

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Re: Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

Posted 24 October 2013 - 06:28 AM

View Postbelgarion262, on 24 October 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

I dislike how despite my politeness in my replies you see the need to insult me whilst stating your views. From what I have seen you are known for this. Just because we disagree about something is no reason to resort to insulting my intelligence.

What you may have been taught in high school may not always be correct, and is often biased when teaching about the country the school is located within.

I'll accept that America is often used as shorthand for the USA but to say that USA is America seems rather arrogant, in that taken literally would imply that Canada, Mexico, Peru, Brazil and all the rest are also included.

But since the topic of this thread is not the definition of the word America, let us let this lie. I shall acknowledge that when people use the word America they often mean USA, but I still argue that it's incorrect but people let it slide for the sake of ease.


Both you and jon.kiparsky have insulted your own intelligence. Not my fault. It's not incorrect. It's the abbreviated form of the United States of America, inferred from its use.

Land masses...Jesus. If you two pseudo-intellectuals even have to argue that, you have just insulted yourselves again...

This post has been edited by farrell2k: 24 October 2013 - 06:28 AM

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#221 lordofduct  Icon User is offline

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Re: Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

Posted 24 October 2013 - 06:31 AM

Pot and kettle much are we?

I'm of the opinion this thread, started by farrel, and fueled by farrel's steamy attitude, has ran its course to a battle of semantics and name calling.

Who else agrees?
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#222 Craig328  Icon User is offline

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Re: Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

Posted 24 October 2013 - 06:36 AM

I have as little use for farrell2k's "thoughts" as I do for the latest advancements in feminine protection products.

Posted Image

Still, he responded directly to something Bort said ("America is a democracy" vs "Nuh uh...America is a republic"). He responded to something IN CONTEXT. Be geography Nazis all you like but everyone with an IQ above the temperature of tap water understood what was originally said and what was originally responded.

Build the bridge folks.
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#223 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is online

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Re: Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

Posted 24 October 2013 - 07:16 AM

View PostCraig328, on 24 October 2013 - 08:36 AM, said:

I have as little use for farrell2k's "thoughts" as I do for the latest advancements in feminine protection products.



I thought you were into guns - or is it just manly guns? :)
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#224 GunnerInc  Icon User is offline

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Re: Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

Posted 24 October 2013 - 07:18 AM

holy shitin shishkebobs, too much bashin going on. everyone is entitled to their own opinions no matter how wrong or right they are.

we are done here....
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#225 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: Looks like the party of fools has shut down the U.S. government.

Posted 24 October 2013 - 07:19 AM

edit: whoops - looks like gunner beat me to it.

The balloon's popped for this thread. Closing.

Spoiler

This post has been edited by modi123_1: 24 October 2013 - 07:20 AM

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