Microchipping your children

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165 Replies - 4287 Views - Last Post: 15 October 2013 - 10:56 AM

#31 supersloth  Icon User is offline

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Re: Microchipping your children

Posted 09 October 2013 - 08:26 AM

to be fair b9, the OP didn't state that local police were in charge of the chip/running the software etc. it was described as a product under your control.

also, that would terrify me to live in a place where i wasn't sure i would get an emergency response to pretty much anything. you make western pennsylvania sound the like the goddamned thunderdome.
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#32 BenignDesign  Icon User is offline

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Re: Microchipping your children

Posted 09 October 2013 - 08:43 AM

*
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So, if it's under my control... I grab a handgun and a GPS. Who needs the police when there's vigilante justice?

If I'm equipped with the ability to find my missing children myself, I'm not going to sit around and wait for a cop. I'm going to get my kid.

Does this device monitor heart rate, blood oxygen levels, blood sugar levels? Is it going to send out a parental alert when the kid wonders out of a set mile radius every time we go to the grocery store 30 miles away? When their pulse is above a certain level, so you can catch them making out in a parking lot? When my daughter's blood sugar plummets at basketball practice?

Can we tie it in with a blood alcohol monitoring system so we know when our 20-year-old college kids are on boozy benders? Or body temperature measurement so we can call the school to let the nurse know our kid is sick? Maybe a distance-from-the-ground monitor so I know when to scream out the window at my daughter to get out of the neighbor's tree?

Jeebus H. Christos! The overbearing parental control options are endless!

It needs a parental remote electric shock button. On a date and I see your heart rate rising? Oh hell no... I'ma shock your ass into chastity!
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#33 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is offline

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Re: Microchipping your children

Posted 09 October 2013 - 08:45 AM

Quote

Maybe a distance-from-the-ground monitor so I know when to scream out the window at my daughter to get out of the neighbor's tree?


Pretty sure my mom had one of those when I was a kid.
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#34 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: Microchipping your children

Posted 09 October 2013 - 09:54 AM

Ha.. B9 is secretly Batmom!

Posted Image
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#35 farrell2k  Icon User is offline

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Re: Microchipping your children

Posted 09 October 2013 - 11:51 AM

View PostBenignDesign, on 09 October 2013 - 01:45 PM, said:

View Postfarrell2k, on 09 October 2013 - 03:36 AM, said:

View PostBenignDesign, on 08 October 2013 - 07:32 PM, said:

No parent wants to think about their child being taken... but chipping them wouldn't stop that. Would chipping mean they'd be found faster? Maybe, maybe not.


lolwut? It actually means that your child would be found faster...

I am not opposed to the idea of chipping my child, as long as the chip is minimally invasive and removable. I guarantee that if any of you who claim they would never chip their child actually had a child who was lost of kidnapped, you would be wishing that you did.


If you had read the rest of my post, I cited reasons why they may, in fact, NOT be found any faster.

I live in the middle of nowhere. When there is an emergency and the police are called, it's a crap shoot as to whether or not there will even be an officer on duty to take the call. Calling 911 doesn't do much good either... being at the far corner of the county, often the State Police won't bother coming this far down for a call and if they do, it takes HOURS to get them here.


You are just making up silly excuses to justify your position. Assuming that YOU and law enforcement could track any child with a chip from any location in the U.S., a missing child with a tracker could be found easier than one without. The same goes for a missing car with a hidden gps tracker. You can come up with as many wild, goofy scenarios as you like, but to claim otherwise is just silly.

This post has been edited by farrell2k: 09 October 2013 - 11:52 AM

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#36 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is offline

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Re: Microchipping your children

Posted 09 October 2013 - 12:00 PM

View Postfarrell2k, on 09 October 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

You are just making up silly excuses to justify your position. Assuming that YOU and law enforcement could track any child with a chip from any location in the U.S., a missing child with a tracker could be found easier than one without. The same goes for a missing car with a hidden gps tracker. You can come up with as many wild, goofy scenarios as you like, but to claim otherwise is just silly.



That's a pretty big assumption, so I've applied some scaling.

The chip is only as good as the devices reading it, and if you're in rural Pennsylvania it's entirely possible that you could be spending a lot of your time out of range of any device that could read the chip and report the location of the putative stolen child.

More important, you seem to be laboring under the misconception that children being kidnapped for ransom is a thing that happens in the US. Really, not so much. In Brazil, maybe. In Columbia, I believe, the FARC has used kidnapping as a means of raising operating funds, but they seem to be pretty quiet right now. In Pennsylvania - what, have the Amish decided to shift their mode of operations?

I would think a good paranoid leftist like you would immediately see through the terror scare nonsense and go straight to the question of "why would anyone want to put a chip that reports a unique identifier to any reader that queries it into lots of children?"

I would think as a reasonably savvy technical sort of person, you could come up with a few reasonable answers. If not, you should google for them. Not because you'd necessarily find them on google, it just might give you an idea or two.
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#37 h4nnib4l  Icon User is offline

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Re: Microchipping your children

Posted 09 October 2013 - 12:00 PM

@farrell2k - do you have kids?
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#38 BenignDesign  Icon User is offline

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Re: Microchipping your children

Posted 09 October 2013 - 12:53 PM

Out of curiosity, farrell2k, where do you live that you have such an in-depth working knowledge of extremely rural parts of Pennsylvania?
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#39 supersloth  Icon User is offline

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Re: Microchipping your children

Posted 09 October 2013 - 01:32 PM

can we just assume the chip works exactly like a cell phone that never loses signal, tells you only location, and move on to the more interesting discussion of why or why not you would ethically do this, rather than just make up technical bullshit as we go.
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#40 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: Microchipping your children

Posted 09 October 2013 - 01:49 PM

Heh.. In a world where folks blithely chip their kids brass mesh will be a monitored material like sudafed, and folks will have to register their Faraday cages so the police can stop by and chat when a rash of children disappearances happen. That and it will mean folks with tin-foiled hats are scorned because people assume they have a second hat to muffle the kid's satellite signals beaming to and fro on the kid's chip.
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#41 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is offline

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Re: Microchipping your children

Posted 09 October 2013 - 01:53 PM

I'm still stuck on the practical issue of why you would possibly want to do this.

Ethically, I think a parent who chooses to do this is totally in the clear, since this is the sort of decision that we expect parents to make on behalf of their children. I'm really glad that my mother did not decide to have me fingerprinted when I was in junior high school but I think that ethically she would have been completely within her rights to do so, if she thought it was something that would benefit me.

I'll suggest an ethical base rule, as a starting point: parents have a right and a duty to take actions that they believe will serve the best interests of their children.

(this is a first approximation, amendments are welcome)

By this rule, Farrell has the right to chip his (possibly hyopthetical) children, if he thinks that's the best thing for them, and B9 has the right to refuse to allow chipping for her kids, if she believes that's in their best interests.

If we accept this rule or somethng substantially similar, the problem reduces to a practical one, namely "On balance, is chipping more to the child's benefit, or is it more against their interests?"

This post has been edited by jon.kiparsky: 09 October 2013 - 01:53 PM

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#42 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: Microchipping your children

Posted 09 October 2013 - 01:55 PM

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parents have a right and a duty to take actions that they believe will serve the best interests of their children.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand that's why I don't vaccinate my "hypothetical children"..
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#43 farrell2k  Icon User is offline

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Re: Microchipping your children

Posted 09 October 2013 - 03:23 PM

View Postjon.kiparsky, on 09 October 2013 - 07:00 PM, said:

View Postfarrell2k, on 09 October 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

You are just making up silly excuses to justify your position. Assuming that YOU and law enforcement could track any child with a chip from any location in the U.S., a missing child with a tracker could be found easier than one without. The same goes for a missing car with a hidden gps tracker. You can come up with as many wild, goofy scenarios as you like, but to claim otherwise is just silly.



That's a pretty big assumption, so I've applied some scaling.

The chip is only as good as the devices reading it, and if you're in rural Pennsylvania it's entirely possible that you could be spending a lot of your time out of range of any device that could read the chip and report the location of the putative stolen child.

More important, you seem to be laboring under the misconception that children being kidnapped for ransom is a thing that happens in the US. Really, not so much. In Brazil, maybe. In Columbia, I believe, the FARC has used kidnapping as a means of raising operating funds, but they seem to be pretty quiet right now. In Pennsylvania - what, have the Amish decided to shift their mode of operations?

I would think a good paranoid leftist like you would immediately see through the terror scare nonsense and go straight to the question of "why would anyone want to put a chip that reports a unique identifier to any reader that queries it into lots of children?"

I would think as a reasonably savvy technical sort of person, you could come up with a few reasonable answers. If not, you should google for them. Not because you'd necessarily find them on google, it just might give you an idea or two.


Considering that all this is wild nonsense that would never happen, I actually thought we were talking about some fictional GPS chip that you and big brother could track from any location. I had no idea you guys were yapping on about RFID, or something similar. I assumed that if you were going to suggest something so ridiculous, that it would at least be something functional and worthwhile....

I have no misconceptions about why children are kidnapped. I never wrote anything about ransoming them, which is actually irrelevant to the fact. You do this shit all the time. You straw man me on shit I never wrote, based on some false assumption of my political views. What the hell is wrong with you, man?

As a parent, I know one things for damned sure. If such a chip did exist and were safe, any parent would regret not having it were their child missing, despite their objections to the contrary. We do it all the time when bad things happen that we know we could have prevented.
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#44 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is offline

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Re: Microchipping your children

Posted 09 October 2013 - 03:32 PM

I think that you're technically whining now.
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#45 farrell2k  Icon User is offline

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Re: Microchipping your children

Posted 09 October 2013 - 03:51 PM

View Postjon.kiparsky, on 09 October 2013 - 10:32 PM, said:

I think that you're technically whining now.


With good reason. You keep straw manning me.
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