GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

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51 Replies - 2404 Views - Last Post: 26 October 2013 - 01:55 PM

#1 CTphpnwb  Icon User is online

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GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

Posted 22 October 2013 - 03:12 PM

We write software for processors and operating systems that are well defined and well known, yet none of us is able to write our software bug free. Given that, it seems odd that the food industry claims that genetically modified foods might be safe. After all, genetic modifications are changes in the software that cells use, and no one knows as much about how those work as we do about man made systems. Is anyone aware of a logical argument for the safety of GMOs?

This post has been edited by CTphpnwb: 22 October 2013 - 03:13 PM


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#2 lordofduct  Icon User is offline

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Re: GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

Posted 22 October 2013 - 03:26 PM

Didn't we just have this conversation like a week or so ago?

OK, maybe a little more than a week, but still:

http://www.dreaminco...-organic-foods/
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#3 supersloth  Icon User is offline

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Re: GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

Posted 22 October 2013 - 03:29 PM

i don't really have any problems as far as _consuming_ GMO food. i think it's fine, and i think the idea of superfoods is pretty badass.

i just have a problem with the licensing they use and the fight to not label food as GMO so people can make their own decisions.
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#4 CTphpnwb  Icon User is online

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Re: GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

Posted 22 October 2013 - 03:41 PM

View Postlordofduct, on 22 October 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

Didn't we just have this conversation like a week or so ago?

OK, maybe a little more than a week, but still:

http://www.dreaminco...-organic-foods/

I did look, but didn't see that one. Still, I'm more interested in the logic behind declaring it safe enough to use at all, assuming there is any such logic.
[edit] To be clear: Claiming that there is no evidence that it is unsafe is illogical and counterproductive.

This post has been edited by CTphpnwb: 22 October 2013 - 03:50 PM

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#5 lordofduct  Icon User is offline

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Re: GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

Posted 22 October 2013 - 03:52 PM

What logic are you looking for?

Your request is a non sequitur.

What logic is there to assume it's not safe at all? (not unsafe in part, but at all)

What logic is there at all that any food you eat is safe, GMO or not?

GMO foods have shown to have great benefits, that's reason enough to use them. There's your logic for using them. Now supply some evidence for not using them other than "we don't know what they could do to us". Shit, we KNOW soda pop causes diabetes and people still drink that shit every day in place of water.

I'm with supersloth, I'm all for the idea of GMO foods. I just don't like the idea of trying to hide the fact they're GMOs. Though I actually understand the marketing reason for it. Everyone cries that they're trying to hide it's GMO because they know it's bad for you... but really no, it's because everyone is so scared of GMOs for no real logical reason other than that "I don't know what it is!" All you see is giant ants on the TV screen on midnight sci-fi horrors. Doesn't make trying to hide the fact they're GMO any better... but the logic for why is sound.

...

Now I get your premise of asking though. You wanted to ask us as programmers what changing little bits of code in a super system could do harm or not...

Well, my job is to change little bits of code in a giant system every damn day. And sometimes it makes the system better, other times it introduces yet a new bug elsewhere.

In the end though, the product progresses towards better. Shit I don't know what 99% of the code in the damn thing even looks like, let alone what it does (it's srsly massive). But I make changes to the thing all the fucking time.

So there's the logic it seems you're looking for. Do small changes cause big consequences that we should be scared of? Sure, but they can also cause good. Else I wouldn't have a job.
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#6 CTphpnwb  Icon User is online

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Re: GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

Posted 22 October 2013 - 03:53 PM

View Postlordofduct, on 22 October 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:

What logic is there to assume it's not safe at all? (not unsafe in part, but at all)

Read my first post: No one writes bug free software. Introducing man made bugs into the software that drives plants and animals cannot end well.
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#7 lordofduct  Icon User is offline

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Re: GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

Posted 22 October 2013 - 03:56 PM

Note that sentence followed the 'non sequitur' statement. My bringing it up was that your logic does not follow.

How about I make it clearer.

You made an argument that something could be possibly wrong, so lets assume the worst (instead of the better), and throw the whole idea out and not take any chances.

Logic... no... follow...
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#8 CTphpnwb  Icon User is online

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Re: GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

Posted 22 October 2013 - 03:58 PM

No, my argument is NOT that something could be wrong. It is that something is ALWAYS wrong. NO ONE writes BUG FREE software in any complex system. EVER.
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#9 lordofduct  Icon User is offline

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Re: GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

Posted 22 October 2013 - 04:00 PM

And thusly it should be assumed that GMOs are unsafe.


That leap there, that's the non sequitur.


Another leap that could be made, that's just as much a non sequitur is this.

No one writes bug free code, including mother nature, so thusly all natural food is not safe.


Hence my sentences above.
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#10 CTphpnwb  Icon User is online

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Re: GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

Posted 22 October 2013 - 04:05 PM

Mother nature has had millions of years to iron out the bugs. We're not even sure how the system works. So I'll ask again: where's the logic in thinking that we might have any chance of rewriting the software without making serious mistakes?
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#11 supersloth  Icon User is offline

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Re: GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

Posted 22 October 2013 - 04:07 PM

mother nature hasn't ironed out the bugs though, there's PLENTY, we just call it acceptable risk and move on. there's no reason an individual can't manage that acceptable risk for themselves with GMO food as well.
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#12 lordofduct  Icon User is offline

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Re: GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

Posted 22 October 2013 - 04:07 PM

Nature makes mistakes every moment of the day.

Of course that's evidence enough that we would make mistakes.

But where's the logic to keep on doing it...?

THOSE TIMES WE DON'T MAKE MISTAKES.
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Re: GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

Posted 22 October 2013 - 04:11 PM

We always make mistakes. The problem with GMOs is that our mistakes can and will be much larger than any mistake nature can make because we're not making small mutations. We're splicing chunks of DNA from one species into another.

Does anyone have a logical argument for GMO?
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Re: GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

Posted 22 October 2013 - 04:15 PM

no

well, not by the definition of logic you operate with

You know what you're asking for, not a logical explanation, certainly. You're asking for an explanation that would change your feely wheely's... of which you have no desire to change.

You are the crux of the argument, not GMO.

I demonstrated this by showing that your logic is not logic (but instead a non sequitur). And also by showing logic in favor of. You don't accept the feely wheely's of that logic, but the logic still stands. It's a reason to go forward. It's not the only reason, and it's not necessarily the reason we SHOULD go forward. But that's not what you asked for, you claimed there's no logic, I demonstrated there was.

This post has been edited by lordofduct: 22 October 2013 - 04:16 PM

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#15 CTphpnwb  Icon User is online

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Re: GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

Posted 22 October 2013 - 04:23 PM

View Postsupersloth, on 22 October 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

mother nature hasn't ironed out the bugs though, there's PLENTY, we just call it acceptable risk and move on. there's no reason an individual can't manage that acceptable risk for themselves with GMO food as well.

Just saw this. I think you're misunderstanding the question. I'm suggesting that it's possible, even likely, that serious bugs exist in the GMOs already on the market that may not affect individuals significantly, but might be a threat on a population level. As an example, honey bees are dying for unknown reasons. If this were due to GMOs no individual could manage that risk.

This post has been edited by CTphpnwb: 22 October 2013 - 04:33 PM

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