GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

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51 Replies - 2210 Views - Last Post: 26 October 2013 - 01:55 PM

#16 lordofduct  Icon User is offline

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Re: GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

Posted 22 October 2013 - 04:32 PM

Evidence for your claims?

I could just as easily say the die off of bees is related to de-forestation, increase in temperatures world wide, increase in extreme weather, carbon-dioxide output by man (which may or may not be the cause of the weather and temp thing), etc.

We don't get to just say 2 things in the same sentence and then claim that one is related to the other.

I get your slight connection. We modified plants, bees collect pollen from plants.

OK, so lets say these bees are dying from collecting pollen from corn... I could easily say it's because of the anti-pesticides on the corn and not the GMO. Pesticides for which would still exist with out the GMO. Your logic still works... problem is, it works for your argument, cause it's bad logic.
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#17 CTphpnwb  Icon User is offline

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Re: GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

Posted 22 October 2013 - 04:40 PM

Sigh. It's just an example, not a claim.

I'm saying that just like the oil companies telling us they can get oil safely from deep waters in the Gulf and failing miserably, there's no reason to believe food makers claiming that they can safely modify genetic instructions. The difference with genes is that when they fail the results can be larger in scope and time than a few million barrels of oil in the Gulf.
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#18 lordofduct  Icon User is offline

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Re: GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

Posted 22 October 2013 - 04:53 PM

::shakes head::

::walks away::
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#19 h4nnib4l  Icon User is offline

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Re: GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

Posted 22 October 2013 - 07:32 PM

You want a Monsanto-bashing session? Cool. I won't join, because I'm tired of it, but I have no problem with that. I'm blown away by some of the shitty stuff they do.

However, saying that by extension that GMOs in general are shitty, is a leap I can't make. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that we are already moving into a time where we won't be able to move forward without GMOs.

And to continue with your systems analogy: so nature is this massively complex system, programmed with everything it needs to advance life. Each organism has the capability to adapt to its environment (or is pruned if it can't), so that through even the harshest conditions the system is capable of continuing. But the system isn't self-aware. It doesn't have any specific goals, it doesn't make decisions about where to go, it just maintains this amazing algorithm that has thus far proven unbelievably adaptable. However, now here we are, all self-aware and, more importantly, with some specific ideas aout how to improve the system. We're like LoD in that we don't know how 99% of the system works, but we do have a pretty good idea of where we need to start looking to optimize part of the system. Sometimes, optimization efforts fuck with stability, so you have to adjust accordingly. When the system is life, well, yeah, that's a bit fucked up. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't optimize the damned system, just because you're aware that you might drop a couple of user sessions (when the end result could be 7 billion stable user sessions).
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#20 Bort  Icon User is offline

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Re: GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

Posted 23 October 2013 - 01:58 AM

GMO's are great. I mean, not only do you get better food, but there is also a chance that the GM part of it will do something crazy to you and turn you into a superhero (or villain if you swing that way).

HA! Eat logic, OP.

This post has been edited by Bort: 23 October 2013 - 01:59 AM

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#21 Craig328  Icon User is offline

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Re: GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

Posted 23 October 2013 - 06:28 AM

View PostCTphpnwb, on 22 October 2013 - 06:12 PM, said:

We write software for processors and operating systems that are well defined and well known, yet none of us is able to write our software bug free. Given that, it seems odd that the food industry claims that genetically modified foods might be safe. After all, genetic modifications are changes in the software that cells use, and no one knows as much about how those work as we do about man made systems. Is anyone aware of a logical argument for the safety of GMOs?


Yes. Golden rice is a good example. Rice modified to produce beta-carotene, whose deficiency in the diets of third world kids it's estimated kills around 6000 kids per day and blinds countless more.

Incidentally, if altering a plant's genes to produce a better food product is so troublesome you may want to indict Gregor Mendel and around a brazzilion bees. Cross pollination's been going on forever and results in the same thing: plants with new genes.

This post has been edited by Craig328: 23 October 2013 - 06:28 AM

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#22 no2pencil  Icon User is offline

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Re: GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

Posted 23 October 2013 - 06:51 AM

View PostCTphpnwb, on 22 October 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

Does anyone have a logical argument for GMO?

The only argument that I've seen for GMO is that it'll help feel 3rd world countries, by making food less expensive. My problem with that argument is, to my knowledge, it's only fed to the US, because other countries have laws & regulation to keep GMO food out.
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#23 Craig328  Icon User is offline

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Re: GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

Posted 23 October 2013 - 06:57 AM

Actually, I've not so much heard that argument near as often as the one where modifying the crops so they are more pest resistant reduces the use of pesticides. That one and drought resistance. I suppose they could also alter genes to increase yields and so on.
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#24 farrell2k  Icon User is offline

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Re: GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

Posted 23 October 2013 - 07:28 AM

You probably have more to worry about from the amount of asbestos from the air that you breathe every day than you do from genetically modified foods. That unsightly mole will probably give you melanoma and kill you before genetically modified corn does...
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#25 CTphpnwb  Icon User is offline

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Re: GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

Posted 23 October 2013 - 01:09 PM

So it seems the basic argument in *favor of GMO safety is that nothing else is 100% safe so we might as well add this risk too, and that your individual safety is relatively unaffected unless (until) the inevitable big mistake that creates a population level problem that can't be controlled.

* Increased yields and nutrition have nothing to do with safety.
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#26 lordofduct  Icon User is offline

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Re: GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

Posted 23 October 2013 - 01:25 PM

Everything is a risk.

Not doing it is a risk as well.

Increased yields and nutrition have to do with safety when considering starvation and malnutrition in our world.

Your risk analysis is biased.
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#27 Craig328  Icon User is offline

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Re: GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

Posted 23 October 2013 - 01:35 PM

Starving to death due to lack of food would rank much higher on MY risk chart than it seems it would for you.

This is perhaps something you should think on next time you're enjoying a nice pasta dish. You see, pasta is made from semolina flour which is a product of what's known as winter wheat (there is spring and winter wheat varieties and both are grown in the U.S. and have been for quite some time now). Winter wheat's more technical name is "durum wheat" and it's grown pretty much in the Dakotas. Thing is, durum wheat was intentionally exposed to radiation to induce genetic variances. They settled on one such variation in particular as it improved the quality of pasta and didn't render the plant sterile (a common experimental side effect). That was more than 50 years ago (early 1960s). So far, 50 years later, it seems (aside from perhaps an increase in obesity) to have had no ill effects.

Not all GMO efforts necessitate treating the products thereof like the boogeyman. There are dozens of varieties of apples and you've likely ingested a fair number of them during your lifetime. Those varieties are all the result of genetic variance...some natural, some bred into existence by farmers/agriculturists.
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#28 farrell2k  Icon User is offline

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Re: GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:28 PM

Hold on here. Have GMOs even been demonstrated to be harmful?
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#29 lordofduct  Icon User is offline

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Re: GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:35 PM

nope

There was one study done by a french guy that when put to peer review was shown to be bullshit.
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#30 grimpirate  Icon User is offline

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Re: GMOs: Why would anyone think they're safe?

Posted 23 October 2013 - 03:07 PM

I'll show you a bug.
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