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#1 xotix  Icon User is offline

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Create and sell a CMS - good idea?

Posted 28 November 2013 - 10:09 AM

Hi,

I'm a student again. I did a apprenticeship as a web developer, so I know how to code etc. I don't have years of experience but I would say I cand build applications with a good and state of the art codebase.

At the moment I'm doing a little learning applications to fresh up my knowledge because I had a little break. I'll probably earn a bit of money with it, but not too much.

At the moment, I'm thinking of way to make money next to my studies. Of course, the first thing I came up with was making homepages. This isn't very good because I would need a designer and I wouldn't code a lot but rather do some Frontend Stuff/HTML,CSS since I can't afford to accept big projects where I'd be involved into coding.

When the above idea came up, I started looking for good CMS. I don't know a lot of CMS in depth but I have worked with quite a few at least once and I never liked any of them. I must say, I never really worked with Drupal or Typo3. There are several facts I really didn't like about all CMS I've come across.

1. They save the template in the database. So I can't use a propery editor to edit. I have to use clumpy, shitty web based editors. (There are some goodweb editors out there though, but never seen them implemented into a CMS.)
2. They have a backend. I don't like to teach any non IT human being how this abstraction of frontend-backend works. It's unituitiv. It's a thing from the 90s when everything started. So I want some nice inline/frontend editing with some kind of control center for the moreadvanced settings which a normal user never has to care about. I know there are some frontend editing plugins etc. but I don't think they are very well designed.

Actually, there are 2 applications I like. CQ5 and Django. First one is too big and based on Java and I want to keep with my knowledge and don't want to learn everything fro mscratch. Second one is based on the Django Framework which isn't php as well.

So, do you think it would be worth it, starting a CMS project for earning some money? There are the features I can think of without (just now, didn't plan anything or think a lot about it yet)

-Based on Symfony2
-Very basic (No big features included. Not even a contact form plugin.)
-Very easy handable plugin system (Like Magento has it. Search online a Plugin and autoinstall it.)
-Easy codeable plugins. (Very simple API of the Core because it's very basic)
-Every feature you know is a plugin (e.g. contact form plugin, forum plugin, tag cloud plugin, guest book plugin. They are easily useable for a non coding person since he can just apply it to some div element)
-Inline Editing
-Templates and CSS saved as files
-Maybe, and just maybe, some drag and drop feature.

Anyway, something like that. It should be lightweight, basic and easy to use.

I can't understand why people rape Wordpress and things like that to build a homepage...

Do you think this could work or it is doomed to fail? Actually, I like open source and I would love it to be open source, so I'd just charge for commercial use or use any other kind of business modell. Most of companies have their own CMS which might also be a bit of a negative aspect.

Just tell me what you think, if you can make money with something like that or not. Maybe there is such a nice CMS and I just couldn't find it.

Thanks

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Replies To: Create and sell a CMS - good idea?

#2 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: Create and sell a CMS - good idea?

Posted 28 November 2013 - 10:18 AM

Quote

I can't understand why people rape Wordpress and things like that to build a homepage...

Huh?

Quote

Do you think this could work or it is doomed to fail?

You have to compete against free CMS's.. wordpress, drupal, joomla, etc. So that's a hard road to walk. Those are tried, tested, developed, used, etc. Then again they had to start somewhere..
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#3 xotix  Icon User is offline

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Re: Create and sell a CMS - good idea?

Posted 28 November 2013 - 10:35 AM

View Postmodi123_1, on 28 November 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

Quote

I can't understand why people rape Wordpress and things like that to build a homepage...

Huh?

Quote

Do you think this could work or it is doomed to fail?

You have to compete against free CMS's.. wordpress, drupal, joomla, etc. So that's a hard road to walk. Those are tried, tested, developed, used, etc. Then again they had to start somewhere..


Of course. That's why I opened this thread, to get some feedback if it is just a nice dreaming. It would just make fun to code. I would just like to do it. :) But I don't have spare time to do such a project without benefiting from it. I'm very open to every optinion, just be very clear and direct. :)

Never looked into Wordpress, but I've been told it actually is a nightmare to extend/code on it because it initially was or still is a blogging software and people just try to make it into a CMS for normal homepages.
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#4 baavgai  Icon User is online

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Re: Create and sell a CMS - good idea?

Posted 28 November 2013 - 03:35 PM

All things being equal, you don't stand a chance against an open source CMS. It's also rather concerning that you haven't played with what already exists.

To make a good CMS, you need to understand what's already succeeded and what value people place on core features. If you don't use a CMS, you probably can't write a competitive one, because you don't understand what the competition is.

Consider that the open source CMS does offer revenue opportunities. The developers that write add ons and extensions for things like Wordpress and Drupal regularly sell their product, often with the model of free version and professional paid version. Write one of these first, then you'll better understand how to monetize a CMS.

Write the CMS with the best extendability and entice developers to develop for it. Offer official endorsements for a cut. Don't bother trying to sell the core; make it open source. Sell the accessories.
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#5 xotix  Icon User is offline

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Re: Create and sell a CMS - good idea?

Posted 29 November 2013 - 02:56 AM

View Postbaavgai, on 28 November 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

All things being equal, you don't stand a chance against an open source CMS. It's also rather concerning that you haven't played with what already exists.

To make a good CMS, you need to understand what's already succeeded and what value people place on core features. If you don't use a CMS, you probably can't write a competitive one, because you don't understand what the competition is.

Consider that the open source CMS does offer revenue opportunities. The developers that write add ons and extensions for things like Wordpress and Drupal regularly sell their product, often with the model of free version and professional paid version. Write one of these first, then you'll better understand how to monetize a CMS.

Write the CMS with the best extendability and entice developers to develop for it. Offer official endorsements for a cut. Don't bother trying to sell the core; make it open source. Sell the accessories.


I see your point and I basically agree with you. I don't think I will beat Wordpress or Drupal, they have a heavy user base which you can't just attract to your CMS by making something you think is better.

Of couse I have used several CMS but I never used Wordpress and Drupal though. Thank you for this good input.
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#6 xotix  Icon User is offline

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Re: Create and sell a CMS - good idea?

Posted 29 November 2013 - 03:02 AM

View Postbaavgai, on 28 November 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

Write the CMS with the best extendability and entice developers to develop for it. Offer official endorsements for a cut. Don't bother trying to sell the core; make it open source. Sell the accessories.


Can't I edit my posts? Anway, what do you mean by endorsements?
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#7 baavgai  Icon User is online

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Re: Create and sell a CMS - good idea?

Posted 29 November 2013 - 04:24 AM

You have a big, popular, open source project that supports developer addons. Addons that are sold. Then if the official site says something like "For professional users, we recommends these extensions..." it's worth something to those being recommended. ( What? You thought that was friendly advice one those sites? :devil2: )

Or, more broadly, just offering a seal of approval. Basically, works and is bug free. This could come with hosting on the official site, so users will see the addon in the search. Anyone should be able to write an addon, but being on the official search list can be another matter.

One of the interesting things about open source is that companies do monetize it. Just look around at what's out there.
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#8 xotix  Icon User is offline

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Re: Create and sell a CMS - good idea?

Posted 29 November 2013 - 04:47 AM

View Postbaavgai, on 29 November 2013 - 04:24 AM, said:

You have a big, popular, open source project that supports developer addons. Addons that are sold. Then if the official site says something like "For professional users, we recommends these extensions..." it's worth something to those being recommended. ( What? You thought that was friendly advice one those sites? :devil2:/> )

Or, more broadly, just offering a seal of approval. Basically, works and is bug free. This could come with hosting on the official site, so users will see the addon in the search. Anyone should be able to write an addon, but being on the official search list can be another matter.

One of the interesting things about open source is that companies do monetize it. Just look around at what's out there.


Advice on what sites? I meant, thanks for posting your input. Ah, now I understand. Sry, as you probably noticed, English isn't my tongue language, so sometimes I don't get the meaning of something. Of course, that are all this little details which count and which at the end result in quality.

Just for curiosity, if I create a theme or a plugin for Wordpress and want to sell it, how much does Wordpress charge for it?

I also thought about creating Plugins but I think most of the things people need is already done very well.

What do you mean with this: "One of the interesting things about open source is that companies do monetize it."? Do you mean, that a company supports the open source project or that they are using it for commercial products or do you mean by using them they make them attractive and thus give them actual value?

Also, how can I edit my post?
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#9 tlhIn`toq  Icon User is offline

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Re: Create and sell a CMS - good idea?

Posted 29 November 2013 - 11:47 PM

I don't wish to be the language police. And I am far from an English major. But I would urge you to take a course in remedial English. Your original post is just painful to read because of all the problems with it that are learned before even 8th grade. "a apprenticeship" ?? Ouch. Plus several sentences that are missing entire words, like "to". One can get the meaning via context so they aren't totally unreadable, but its a struggle.

The point to this suggestion is that you'll find it hard to get contracts when people can't communicate with your, or fear that everything you put on their web page is going to come out as mangled as what they see here, or in your emails. You can have all the technical and creative skills in the world, but if you can't convey them to your customers in a way that make them have faith in you, they will sign up with your competitor who takes the time to grammar check and spell check.
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#10 baavgai  Icon User is online

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Re: Create and sell a CMS - good idea?

Posted 30 November 2013 - 02:23 AM

To "monetize" something ( almost, but not quite, a slang usage ) is to make money from. You can simply search for open source and money. e.g. http://blogs.hbr.org...-money-with-op/

View Postxotix, on 29 November 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

but I think most of the things people need is already done very well.


And now we're back to the beginning. :P
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#11 Sergio Tapia  Icon User is offline

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Re: Create and sell a CMS - good idea?

Posted 01 December 2013 - 09:01 PM

I wouldn't do it. It's such a saturated market that it's ridiculous at this point to try to create something from scratch alone, with no funding. The angle I would take is building themes for the existing CMS's out there and sell them on sites like ThemeForest. I know people who make side income of $600-$2000-month selling their themes there. Hell, I bought a forum theme because it was cheap and worked out of the box, it is a viable side income source.
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#12 Craig328  Icon User is offline

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Re: Create and sell a CMS - good idea?

Posted 02 December 2013 - 08:45 AM

Having read the preceding posts I'm going to add a slightly contrary, conditional comment. While the market for generic CMS applications is indeed saturated, there are still niche, insular markets that need something like a CMS for specialized web applications that aren't well served by the existing OS CMS products out there. I know because I'm nearly done building one myself (that also does many things in addition) and have a paying customer lined up to buy it if it doesn't suck (I've extended my dev/testing timeline to triple ensure that all the suckage is absent when I demo it).

Point is, trying to elbow your way into a market niche that's already dominated by big, well-known players is a losing idea from the get go. Your product may indeed blow those others away but without a solid marketing strategy, you'll never get enough (and retain enough) market share to make it a worthwhile product. Entrepreneur opportunities to develop the "next big thing" are pretty much confined to niche markets/industries...especially if you're talking about a web product like a CMS.
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