Big Ideas, Little Expierience, learning java to earn $$ (pos

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40 Replies - 1807 Views - Last Post: 20 January 2014 - 06:04 PM Rate Topic: ***-- 2 Votes

Poll: Big Ideas, Little Expierience, learning java to earn $$ (pos (3 member(s) have cast votes)

In your idea, should i start with app development (small) then move on to computer programming? or start with computer programming, and apply my knowledge to Applet design. or should i not start small and go for a big project right off the bat

  1. Start with Apps (using Java if possible) (3 votes [100.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 100.00%

  2. Start with web games and file games (by file i mean downloadable, or buy able, both through java) (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. Start with a Biiig project, that will require time, but possibly an experience payout, and smaller projects would be easier, if you vote this i would like you to comment why (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 Kkajr  Icon User is offline

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Big Ideas, Little Expierience, learning java to earn $$ (pos

Posted 15 January 2014 - 06:40 PM

Hello! This is my first post, i plan on making a company from my ideas, i have a lot, but little knowledge to apply, i like the idea of starting with OOP style games, but i wouldn't know the difficulty. I would also like to know What style of game would be an easy game to start out with?

I have a lot of ambition towards the idea of creating my own games, and i would like to gain the skills to go through with it. now i see alot of people who can go and get tutors to help them through to making their own games, or can pay to have people fulfill roles required, but i would like to work alone, because i see no one else who has the same frustraion, and ambition towards the goal that i do. so ultimately my goal is like making a world that i enjoy and cant see in other games.

example: I enjoy TD games (not my favorite, but for sake of example) but i don't like how little towers, or the enemys, or the money system, or graphics, and i feel like what is missing is what i am looking for, so if i had the skills (and access to that game) i would add, subtract and modify to fit what i would enjoy, and what i feel others would too! basically i want to make games, cause i don't see what i think people are looking for. And in the final stages of my goal, i would like to make a game that requires $$ to buy, so it can help me pay for a gaming collage to help me reach my goals with more personal skills. But for now, this is all i can do, and i need your help to do it!

This passage does sound very arrogant, but maybe some veteran who enjoys helping people solve problems, could answer either in the comments, for others to see if they have a similar issue, or at my email: <Removed>

(note that after reading this, you might have noticed my bad habit of run on sentences)

This post has been edited by macosxnerd101: 15 January 2014 - 06:42 PM
Reason for edit:: Removed email per site policies


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Replies To: Big Ideas, Little Expierience, learning java to earn $$ (pos

#2 macosxnerd101  Icon User is online

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Re: Big Ideas, Little Expierience, learning java to earn $$ (pos

Posted 15 January 2014 - 06:45 PM

Forget biting off a big game. Really, forget game programming in general, if you don't know how to code. Start by looking at tutorials, working through a book, and doing the exercises in the book.

Games are big projects, and learning through game development is usually the wrong way to go.

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because i see no one else who has the same frustraion, and ambition towards the goal that i do.

We get basically the same question you ask every other day. On the first page alone, I found a few threads of people with lots of ambition, no skillset, and the belief that they will make the next big thing. Not to be rude, but color me a bit cynical.
Example 1
Example 2
Example 3
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#3 Kkajr  Icon User is offline

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Re: Big Ideas, Little Expierience, learning java to earn $$ (pos

Posted 15 January 2014 - 06:49 PM

wow, you replied before i could ask you, and i understand the email policy
and as a reply, i understand that starting with a game is hard, but i am not looking towards learning to code, but learning to code with the idea that i will be applying it to games
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#4 macosxnerd101  Icon User is online

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Re: Big Ideas, Little Expierience, learning java to earn $$ (pos

Posted 15 January 2014 - 06:53 PM

Let me reiterate- game development is hard. If you want to code games at the level that you can earn an income, you'll need to be a skilled developer. Jumping into game development without having a strong foundation leads to cutting corners, a poorly architected project, and a low-grade product. You will miss a lot of very important concepts if you just jump right into game development. Seriously- you are not the first person to ask this question, nor are you the only person who wants to be the next big game developer. We see this a lot. Search the forum if you do not believe me.
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#5 Kkajr  Icon User is offline

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Re: Big Ideas, Little Expierience, learning java to earn $$ (pos

Posted 15 January 2014 - 06:58 PM

i understand that there are a lot of people looking for to gain the ability to learn code whilst applying them to games, and with no actual skillset... and yeah, i don't mind you stating that, it wasn't rude, but i do believe that people who have ambition do have a skill that a lot of people who do coding basically just for the money don't; the fact that they are willing to spend time to learn more.

and i dont want to be the next big developer, i only want to be able to gain the skills required so that i can make what i wish to see in products, and that was a good tip about jumping straight into game development, i do believe that it would cause a lot of problems, but what if you did start with veery small projects, like making basic game comands like gui's, level selection pages, and/ or object spawning, and damage intakes, would those be better ways to start?
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#6 macosxnerd101  Icon User is online

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Re: Big Ideas, Little Expierience, learning java to earn $$ (pos

Posted 15 January 2014 - 06:59 PM

I think you aren't being realistic about what is required of programmers. We are constantly required to learn, be it new APIs, new parts of our favorite languages, and new languages altogether. We get very little training on the job and are often expected to just pick it up.

Having a passion is a good thing, but passion and wanting to learn only go but so far. People who don't have programming experience grossly underestimate their abilities to produce software, as well as the time and difficulty involved in producing said software.

I'm trying to be realistic with you that if you jump in and think you'll swim, you're in for a disappointment and lots of frustration (speaking from a certain amount of experience). Please don't put yourself through it, when you really need to invest time in learning the basics first. Nobody here just jumped into the deep end and became an Olympic swimmer. We all started from the basics, and have gotten better throughout the years.

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but what if you did start with veery small projects, like making basic game comands like gui's, level selection pages, and/ or object spawning, and damage intakes, would those be better ways to start?

These are not basic projects. Character modeling requires an understanding of OOP. Graphics programming is hard, and not for a beginner.
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#7 Kkajr  Icon User is offline

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Re: Big Ideas, Little Expierience, learning java to earn $$ (pos

Posted 15 January 2014 - 07:05 PM

View Postmacosxnerd101, on 15 January 2014 - 06:45 PM, said:

Forget biting off a big game. Really, forget game programming in general, if you don't know how to code. Start by looking at tutorials, working through a book, and doing the exercises in the book.

Games are big projects, and learning through game development is usually the wrong way to go.

Quote

because i see no one else who has the same frustraion, and ambition towards the goal that i do.

We get basically the same question you ask every other day. On the first page alone, I found a few threads of people with lots of ambition, no skillset, and the belief that they will make the next big thing. Not to be rude, but color me a bit cynical.
Example 1
Example 2
Example 3

also, just pointing out, i did say that my passage was a tad bit arrogant sounding, but i didn't know you thought that i was this arrogant about my ideas. i took a look at them, and they all want to start out with 3d games, i dont, i have tried already (so maybe i am) and i understand why it isn't the best thing to start with, i even said in my passage that i would prefer to start out with object oriented programming. also, i dont mean for my responses to come out acting like i know everything, you have made almost 40k of helpful posts, but i am trying to understand some things, and believe me, by the end of today, i'll probably go on and try basic java programming first, just a note

-kkajr
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#8 macosxnerd101  Icon User is online

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Re: Big Ideas, Little Expierience, learning java to earn $$ (pos

Posted 15 January 2014 - 07:08 PM

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also, just pointing out, i did say that my passage was a tad bit arrogant sounding, but i didn't know you thought that i was this arrogant about my ideas.

I'm not judging your posts for whether or not you sound arrogant. I'm merely pointing out that we get a lot of people who have no experience posting on how to make these gigantic projects. They're setting themselves up for failure and refuse to be deterred to go learn the basics.

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i would prefer to start out with object oriented programming.

You have to start with Hello, World and work up. OOP comes after you have a good understanding of conditionals, variables, loops, arrays, and Strings.
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Re: Big Ideas, Little Expierience, learning java to earn $$ (pos

Posted 15 January 2014 - 07:08 PM

and what do you mean by "basics"? i can understand that you mean writing to the console, or displaying files or pictures, but what else? what did you start out with?
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Re: Big Ideas, Little Expierience, learning java to earn $$ (pos

Posted 15 January 2014 - 07:12 PM

Displaying pictures are not basics.

This is what I mean by the basics, and why I suggest buying a book and looking at tutorials. I listed a learning sequence in one of the threads I linked to in my first post.

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after you have a good understanding of conditionals, variables, loops, arrays, and Strings.

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Re: Big Ideas, Little Expierience, learning java to earn $$ (pos

Posted 15 January 2014 - 07:13 PM

View Postmacosxnerd101, on 15 January 2014 - 07:08 PM, said:

Quote

also, just pointing out, i did say that my passage was a tad bit arrogant sounding, but i didn't know you thought that i was this arrogant about my ideas.

I'm not judging your posts for whether or not you sound arrogant. I'm merely pointing out that we get a lot of people who have no experience posting on how to make these gigantic projects. They're setting themselves up for failure and refuse to be deterred to go learn the basics.

Quote

i would prefer to start out with object oriented programming.

You have to start with Hello, World and work up. OOP comes after you have a good understanding of conditionals, variables, loops, arrays, and Strings.


i also do have intermediate knowledge with Lua, but it started getting difficult to understand, and i have read countless game articles where the developers who have made successful games, all started out with Java, and that is why i came to learn more
and i have small amounts of knowledge through them, i have been using this as a beggenning tutorial kinda thing, it is a great start:
http://www.codecademy.com/

it teaches all the basics of java, i am almost done with the courses, but it doesnt teach how it can be applied to game specifically, which is why i found this website
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Re: Big Ideas, Little Expierience, learning java to earn $$ (pos

Posted 15 January 2014 - 07:14 PM

View Postmacosxnerd101, on 15 January 2014 - 08:59 PM, said:

We get very little training on the job and are often expected to just pick it up.


When you are hired for a job, you are expected to be productive as quickly as possibly. You get paid to make the company money. Part of the interview process is not to find out if you can learn, to find out if you are the guy for the job.
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Re: Big Ideas, Little Expierience, learning java to earn $$ (pos

Posted 15 January 2014 - 07:16 PM

I think Codeacademy is great for learning syntax, but not for learning logic. How do you sort an array (without using Arrays.sort())? How do you determine if a String is a palindrome? How would you output a triangle of * symbols, given an input of the number of rows? You are clearly not ready to apply programming to games. I don't mean to be rude by saying that, but I strongly encourage you to pick up a book and weed through it. Youtube videos and Codeacademy don't cut it.
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Re: Big Ideas, Little Expierience, learning java to earn $$ (pos

Posted 15 January 2014 - 07:22 PM

View Postmacosxnerd101, on 15 January 2014 - 07:16 PM, said:

I think Codeacademy is great for learning syntax, but not for learning logic. How do you sort an array (without using Arrays.sort())? How do you determine if a String is a palindrome? How would you output a triangle of * symbols, given an input of the number of rows? You are clearly not ready to apply programming to games. I don't mean to be rude by saying that, but I strongly encourage you to pick up a book and weed through it. Youtube videos and Codeacademy don't cut it.


aye, i don't understand logic, and i prefer Codeacademy because of the fact that unlike YouTube videos and other tutorials, it comes with mini coding projects, and you just choose it, it says display your name and make it move when you interact with it, and that's all you get, but it does give you hints if you require them, and it has moderators that can help you if you really don't understand, but books don't offer any of this
Also, you dont have to kepp saying you dont mean to be rude, i understand the tough love required in trying to get someone to understand if they are being stubborn, and i am not "trying" to be.
-kkajr
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Re: Big Ideas, Little Expierience, learning java to earn $$ (pos

Posted 15 January 2014 - 07:24 PM

Books can only offer so much of the logical reasoning. Part of growing as a programmer is working through it and toughing it out. The books can show you how loops work and a couple instances where they apply. They can't (nor should anyone) hold your hand through the problem solving process, as Codeacademy seems to do. Programming is hard. There is a reason we are in high demand and get paid a lot.

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it comes with mini coding projects, and you just choose it, it says display your name and make it move when you interact with it

Again, this is just syntax.
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