JQuery- Do developers need it?

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36 Replies - 923 Views - Last Post: 05 February 2014 - 07:20 AM

#31 Atli  Icon User is offline

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Re: JQuery- Do developers need it?

Posted 03 February 2014 - 10:51 AM

I'm clearly not suggesting that people should use legacy IE. I'm only saying that some of them still do, and it's bad business to throw away potential customers because of a few microsecond performance hit here and there. Especially when the only people remotely likely to be aware of these hits are the very people using these ancient browsers. The modern people will not feel a thing either way. - Better a little lagging and working than not working at all.

If you're not in a position where their loss would affect you, fantastic for you! Some of us aren't that lucky however.
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#32 ArtificialSoldier  Icon User is offline

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Re: JQuery- Do developers need it?

Posted 03 February 2014 - 11:06 AM

I understand, I'm not trying to argue with anyone. I just have a pretty deep-seeded hate for IE6. It has a special place in my heart. Or bowels, or something.
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#33 ge∅  Icon User is online

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Re: JQuery- Do developers need it?

Posted 04 February 2014 - 02:37 PM

I just find odd to use a library for compatibility reasons when the library itself degrades the target users' experience by making the site next to unusable on old browsers. Especially when the compatibility issues aren't actual issues (sometimes they are, but people usually don't think about compatibility at all and use jQuery blindly).

To answer rikkp's question : If I write jQuery code and I need some extra help, it wouldn't be effective at all to hire somebody who doesn't know the library and who doesn't bow before the same coding conventions. When people work together they need to speak the same language.

For example I like to store HTML elements in arrays and assign sensors to effectors thanks to their index in their respective array, I never add extra attributes in the HTML to that end, but I know many people who would riddle the HTML with id attributes like "myhandler-1", "mywrapper-1" and do some string matches within their jQuery selectors to make it work. That's 2 totally different approaches and it would be very disturbing to find them both in one project.

This post has been edited by ge∅: 04 February 2014 - 02:39 PM

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#34 Atli  Icon User is offline

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Re: JQuery- Do developers need it?

Posted 05 February 2014 - 02:35 AM

View Postge∅, on 04 February 2014 - 09:37 PM, said:

I just find odd to use a library for compatibility reasons when the library itself degrades the target users' experience by making the site next to unusable on old browsers. Especially when the compatibility issues aren't actual issues

I don't know what sites you have been viewing, but none of the sites I've created have been degraded to a near unusable state thanks to jQuery. Not even with heavy JS usage on ancient laptops with legacy IE. (Which is how I used to test old IE versions.)

Again, I think you are overstating the performance issues a lot. Of course if you put layers upon layers of animations and other heavy effects, things will deteriorate quickly in old browsers, but that would be true no matter what, even without jQuery. - Only a careless/inexperienced developer would do that when legacy support is needed in the first place. The library can hardly be blamed for this.

Don't confuse the amateur web designers, who pile every jQuery effect they can copy-paste onto their cookie-cutter WP sites, with actual developers who use libraries like jQuery to simplify their compatibility issues.

This post has been edited by Atli: 05 February 2014 - 02:37 AM

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#35 ge∅  Icon User is online

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Re: JQuery- Do developers need it?

Posted 05 February 2014 - 04:26 AM

Ok, maybe I am prejudiced against jQuery because I don't read good jQuery code very often. But that's an indicator of jQuery usage across the web (or maybe French programmers suck more ;) ).

Concerning performances, it all depends on the project : I hit performance issues on a daily basis. I'm a graphic designer with graphic ideas, I hate when things are laggy and I've learned how to write effective JS the hard way. There are many optimisations that can be done with animations. Actually it's the feature that can benefit the most from optimisation in my projects (after loading times of course) because rendering is always the slowest operation on a browser. Sometimes every millisecond is a blessing and throwing them away with a heavy library is sad.
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#36 Atli  Icon User is offline

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Re: JQuery- Do developers need it?

Posted 05 February 2014 - 06:19 AM

It's true that the web is littered with poorly created WP sites, built by amateurs and lazy designers, all full of these crappy jQuery plugin animations - like that damned carousel image thing. Don't condemn the tool, though, just because it's being used poorly :)

I'm not much of a graphics designer myself, so I look at this more from a general programming logic point of view. Of course if you're designing very graphics heavy stuff, I understand wanting to squeeze everything out the browser you want. Kind of like C++ vs C#/Java/Flash/etc... in the desktop gaming world.

Have you tried the 2.x branch of jQuery, to compare graphics performance with your native code? It's designed to work only on the modern browser range (IE's current version - 2), so much of the legacy compatibility code that is slowing down the 1.x branch should be removed.

View Postge∅, on 05 February 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

(or maybe French programmers suck more ;) )

I worked with a French programmer recently that was actually damn good. (Wish I could say the same thing about his project manager :P)
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#37 ge∅  Icon User is online

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Re: JQuery- Do developers need it?

Posted 05 February 2014 - 07:20 AM

I haven't tried the 2.x branch, but what I dislike in the library is the syntax and the design patterns it is optimised for.

For example most of the jQuery programmers I know execute the logic when it's needed (select elements during events, do HTTP requests when they need the data, etc.). My work is about paving the way for interactions so there is only little to do when the user's attention is at a climax, and I haven't seen much (if any) jQuery scripts written like that.

I really struggle when I try to reproduce my patterns with jQuery : I always have to find a workaround and I'm often disappointed by the methods (for example the jQuery indexOf method is very misleading).

I use to prefer the Prototype library but it turned out to be a dead end because of host objects' implementation-dependent nature. I've tried myself to extend the Array prototype to work with lists of elements but it's not as clean as I would like.

I understand that raw JS isn't very sexy and that OOP is nicer to look at but I just... hate wrappers XD
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