Game of Thrones

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64 Replies - 5884 Views - Last Post: 23 June 2014 - 01:41 AM

#31 Ntwiles  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game of Thrones

Posted 01 May 2014 - 07:45 PM

https://www.youtube....h?v=5fPRN77anmE
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#32 depricated  Icon User is online

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Re: Game of Thrones

Posted 02 May 2014 - 04:50 AM

View Postxclite, on 01 May 2014 - 08:44 PM, said:

View PostNeoTifa, on 01 May 2014 - 08:54 PM, said:

Lol you naive fool. Tyrells are Dornish

What?

Confusion with the Martells I'm sure. Kind of funny, since the Reach is pretty much the polar opposite of Dorne. Temperate, fertile, rolling plains, rivers. Even a few islands!
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#33 depricated  Icon User is online

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Re: Game of Thrones

Posted 02 May 2014 - 05:28 AM

Also I disagree with assessment that they're "Lannisters without incest."

For one, the incest aspect was pretty much limited to Jaime and Cersei - there's no indication that it's endemic to the clan the way it is with the Targaryens (brother and sister would often wed to keep the blood of the dragon pure, pharoah style).

But more importantly, every House is political. The Tyrells are politically savvy, but so are the Martells, the Lannisters, the Tullys, the Arryns, the Targaryens, and the Baratheons. The Starks have been aloof for generations so I don't include them, but they did most of their politicking through their vassal House Manderly. The Greyjoys have always gotten away with being insufferable cunts because they're on the Iron Islands and no one wants to bother attacking them without the luxury of a giant dragon.

Being politically savvy and ruthless doesn't really mean much. There are a few things that make the Lannisters special. First is their unshakeable pride, the Lion right? Hear Me Roar! Except for Tyrion, who grew up being shat upon by the family, not a single Lannister ever swollows its pride. Think of Jaime in the holding cell, or while being escorted by Brienne. Scenes with Tywin and Cersei in this season, I don't know if they've aired or not and I don't want to spoil anything, will show that they're just as prideful. The other part of it is that they're backstabbing, and they use their reputation as assholes to fuel itself (see the Rains of Castamere). They demand respect. They get their way through threat, backed by houses like the Cleganes, Marbrands, and Crakehalls.

The Tyrells, on the other hand, are seen as generally benificent lords. Contrast Margery and Joffrey. The Tyrells are seen as the very spirit of chivalry - and think of the way people go nuts for the Knight of Flowers, Ser Loras Tyrell. Rather than rule by fear, they rule by respect. The commoners love them. Their vassal houses can be just as ruthless and brutal as any Lannister vassal, like the Tarlys and Ashfords, but do so with the facade of being guardians of the people. They use their reputation for being benevolent to cover up signs of courtly intrigue and to handwave violence.

One of the great things about Martin's world is that no one is defined by their superpower, and every rule has an exception. It's not Avatar where you have the Fire Nation vs the Earth Kingdom, and it's individuals aren't charicatures of their house's stereotype. Characters are characters, and can be as unfitting for their House's reputation as Samwell of House Tarly or Oberyn of House Martell, or as fitting as Tywin Lannister or Margery Tyrell.

TL;DR: They're all fuckheads.
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#34 Ntwiles  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game of Thrones

Posted 02 May 2014 - 03:02 PM

TL;DR: Depricated is obsessed with the Lannisters.

If that Dorne bit is out, then your Olena theory is totally whack. The Tyrells doing it doesn't add up in any way shape or from. The people that could have done it:

Littlefinger: his motivations are so complex, who knows what he stands to gain from Joffrey's death. What we do know is that he knew Joffrey was going to die, long enough ahead of the fact to prepare a week in advance for Sansa's escape.

Tyrion: Margary had managed to manipulate Joffrey where Tyrion couldn't. That didn't make Tyrion happy. Tyrion thought Joffrey was a little shit, and went straight to grooming Tommen before Joffrey had even been buried.

Varys: Less likely I think, but let's keep in mind it's been stated a few times that poison is the work of women and eunichs. Varys isn't one to take such risky actions, but has been known to do good things in the past. He acts for the good of the realm, not for any single man (except maybe himself). And killing Joffrey can only be good for the realm. I don't see him wanted to frame Tyrion though. They seem to have a mutual respect at the very least.


I'm sure there are others. I don't think there's a single person in the kingdom who was happy with Joffrey being alive.
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#35 NeoTifa  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game of Thrones

Posted 02 May 2014 - 03:34 PM

Looks like my earlier post didn't go through. Didn't the Tyrells marry into the Martells or aren't they scheming together? It's been a few years since I've read it.

View PostNtwiles, on 02 May 2014 - 06:02 PM, said:

Varys: ... poison is the work of women ...



Just trust me man, it's Olena.
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#36 Ntwiles  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game of Thrones

Posted 02 May 2014 - 03:36 PM

If you' re just guessing, I don't believe you. If you read ahead and you're spoiling, I hate you.

This post has been edited by Ntwiles: 02 May 2014 - 03:37 PM

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#37 depricated  Icon User is online

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Re: Game of Thrones

Posted 02 May 2014 - 03:42 PM

I don't want to say anything cause I don't know what's in the show yet...I'm not watching this season til I can watch it all back to back. But I'm fairly certain it's stated outright in the book.

THAR BE SPOILERS BELOW SERIOUSLY ONLY CLICK THIS IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHO KILLED JOFFREY
Spoiler


View PostNeoTifa, on 02 May 2014 - 04:34 PM, said:

Looks like my earlier post didn't go through. Didn't the Tyrells marry into the Martells or aren't they scheming together? It's been a few years since I've read it.

They're probably intermarried at some point, but I'm fairly certain they're not scheming together.

Spoiler

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#38 Ntwiles  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game of Thrones

Posted 02 May 2014 - 03:43 PM

Funny thing I just noticed, a quote from Olena in episode 2 before Joffrey is killed. She's referencing the Red Wedding, but looks like some intentional foreshadowing to me:

"War is war, but killing a man at a wedding, horrid. What sort of a monster would do such a thing?"
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#39 Ntwiles  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game of Thrones

Posted 02 May 2014 - 04:02 PM

Also, watching it again, Olena and Tyrion weren't the only ones to handle the cup. Sansa had it too. And shortly after handling it she says to Tyrion "Can we leave now?". Just saying..
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#40 NeoTifa  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game of Thrones

Posted 02 May 2014 - 05:20 PM

Ah, I thought the Tyrells had Marcella for some reason. Carry on then. Either way, I was right about most of it. I only read through half the 4th book.

View PostNtwiles, on 02 May 2014 - 06:43 PM, said:

Funny thing I just noticed, a quote from Olena in episode 2 before Joffrey is killed. She's referencing the Red Wedding, but looks like some intentional foreshadowing to me:

"War is war, but killing a man at a wedding, horrid. What sort of a monster would do such a thing?"

Cover up ;)
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#41 Ntwiles  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game of Thrones

Posted 02 May 2014 - 05:24 PM

I'm watching episode 4 right now. She just admitted to it, you were right. Fuck. I still say it was out of character. She's smart enough to wait until they consummated their marriage.

I wouldn't even say a cover up. I think maybe she just found the irony entertaining.
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#42 Bort  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game of Thrones

Posted 06 May 2014 - 03:38 AM

If you want the subtle details about how she did it, read on, otherwise, skip the spoiler :)/>/>

Spoiler

This post has been edited by Bort: 07 May 2014 - 02:06 AM

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#43 NeoTifa  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game of Thrones

Posted 06 May 2014 - 01:39 PM

*Renley
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#44 Bort  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game of Thrones

Posted 07 May 2014 - 01:59 AM

Thank you Neo. Yes. Renley was the gay Baratheon.
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#45 snoopy11  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game of Thrones

Posted 07 May 2014 - 02:16 AM

I loved the Honest Trailer bit

"It's like a History lesson but with
Boooobs"

Class.
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