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#1 andrewkim9711  Icon User is offline

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Do I need to learn C# if I learn Ruby on Rails?

Posted 03 July 2014 - 12:09 PM

Hi everyone!

after I graduate high school, I plan on going to a programming boot camp like Dev Bootcamp.
On the website it says they teach HTML5, CSS and Ruby on Rails.
What I heard from my friends/ families that studied in programming is that all I need to learn is the language C#, and it can be used when i get employed in most of companies.

What are the differences between C# and Ruby on Rails?
can I be employed by learning Ruby on Rails and not C# and even start a business ? (my ultimate goal is to start a business that designs/develops websites and softwares to make apps to sell or make apps for clients)

furthermore, are these coding camps worth it? I don't want to go to a college for this as I'm going into ministry after 15 years of business.


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Replies To: Do I need to learn C# if I learn Ruby on Rails?

#2 modi123_1  Icon User is offline

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Re: Do I need to learn C# if I learn Ruby on Rails?

Posted 03 July 2014 - 12:13 PM

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What I heard from my friends/ families that studied in programming is that all I need to learn is the language C#

Does a builder get away with knowing only how to use a claw hammer? No. Languages are tools so the syntax becomes secondary to knowing *HOW* to program. Data structures, work flow, design, algorithms, etc. Companies all have a different skill set that is needed, and if you want to figure out what is popular in your area then I would suggest skimming the local job boards or talking to recruiters.
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#3 andrewkim9711  Icon User is offline

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Re: Do I need to learn C# if I learn Ruby on Rails?

Posted 03 July 2014 - 12:26 PM

View Postmodi123_1, on 03 July 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

Quote

What I heard from my friends/ families that studied in programming is that all I need to learn is the language C#

Does a builder get away with knowing only how to use a claw hammer? No. Languages are tools so the syntax becomes secondary to knowing *HOW* to program. Data structures, work flow, design, algorithms, etc. Companies all have a different skill set that is needed, and if you want to figure out what is popular in your area then I would suggest skimming the local job boards or talking to recruiters.

but is the language Ruby on Rails universal?
if not, I want to look for a camp that teaches C# instead of Ruby on Rails.
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#4 modi123_1  Icon User is offline

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Re: Do I need to learn C# if I learn Ruby on Rails?

Posted 03 July 2014 - 12:30 PM

I am not sure what you mean by universal. Do folks use it for many things? Sure.. they do the same with C#, VB.NET, python, perl, php, html, c++, etc.
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#5 andrewkim9711  Icon User is offline

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Re: Do I need to learn C# if I learn Ruby on Rails?

Posted 03 July 2014 - 12:33 PM

View Postmodi123_1, on 03 July 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

I am not sure what you mean by universal. Do folks use it for many things? Sure.. they do the same with C#, VB.NET, python, perl, php, html, c++, etc.

my ultimate goal is to start a business that makes websites and softwares, so I want to know which language is most applicable. that's what I meant by universal
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#6 modi123_1  Icon User is offline

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Re: Do I need to learn C# if I learn Ruby on Rails?

Posted 03 July 2014 - 12:38 PM

Again that is not just one language. Ruby, php, html, css, javascript, asp.net, etc, etc.. etc. You shouldn't limit your self to thinking there is one end-all/be-all solution. You should learn the concepts of programming and design, and the syntax is secondary.

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I don't want to go to a college for this as I'm going into ministry after 15 years of business.

Why wait for 15 years?
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#7 Curtis Rutland  Icon User is online

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Re: Do I need to learn C# if I learn Ruby on Rails?

Posted 03 July 2014 - 12:41 PM

You're missing the point. There's no "universal language". Java's about as close as you can get in the sense that it's used in a ton of places. But they all have their strengths, their weaknesses, their appropriate times and places.

Ruby on Rails isn't even a language. Ruby is a language, Rails is a web framework (thus, Ruby "on" Rails). C# is a .NET language, so it's mostly used on Windows platforms, but it can run web, GUI, console, service, and webservice applications. Java can do most of that too, except it's not .NET, and it can run on many platforms.

Basically, I'm saying you're going about this wrong. You don't say "what's the #1 programming language?", you say "let's start learning languages, and I'll pick up any new ones I need to do the job".

Learning Ruby isn't a bad idea. Learning C# isn't a bad idea (that's the language I work in). Learning almost any language isn't a bad idea. But if you have limited bandwidth to learn, or limited funding, or whatever, learn what's going to be the most immediately useful for you. If you're saying that most of the jobs in your area are C# jobs, learn C#. But it's not "universal" or even the most common/popular. Do some research, find out what's used in your area, and focus on that.
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#8 andrewkim9711  Icon User is offline

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Re: Do I need to learn C# if I learn Ruby on Rails?

Posted 03 July 2014 - 01:00 PM

View Postmodi123_1, on 03 July 2014 - 12:38 PM, said:

Again that is not just one language. Ruby, php, html, css, javascript, asp.net, etc, etc.. etc. You shouldn't limit your self to thinking there is one end-all/be-all solution. You should learn the concepts of programming and design, and the syntax is secondary.

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I don't want to go to a college for this as I'm going into ministry after 15 years of business.

Why wait for 15 years?

oh.. syntax is the language?
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#9 baavgai  Icon User is offline

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Re: Do I need to learn C# if I learn Ruby on Rails?

Posted 03 July 2014 - 01:01 PM

Ok, ruby is a language. It's a general purpose language. That means you should be able to solve most programming problems with it. However, there a places where some other general purpose language might be better suited.

Rails is a web development framework. There is no ruby on rails language. So, a rails application is a web application, with all the benefits and pitfalls of any other web application.

C# is a major component in Microsoft's development suit. If you want to develop a Windows client app, it can pretty much do it all. There are things C# is used for that ruby would be a very poor choice for.

Also, there are programs for which both ruby and C# would not be a good choice.

There are many, many places where programs run. And not all tools are a good choice for all places.

The question is not "do I need to learn X." Rather, it's "will I always be able to use X." The answer is no, you will not always be able to use Ruby on Rails to solve a problem.
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#10 andrewkim9711  Icon User is offline

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Re: Do I need to learn C# if I learn Ruby on Rails?

Posted 03 July 2014 - 01:08 PM

View PostCurtis Rutland, on 03 July 2014 - 12:41 PM, said:

You're missing the point. There's no "universal language". Java's about as close as you can get in the sense that it's used in a ton of places. But they all have their strengths, their weaknesses, their appropriate times and places.

Ruby on Rails isn't even a language. Ruby is a language, Rails is a web framework (thus, Ruby "on" Rails). C# is a .NET language, so it's mostly used on Windows platforms, but it can run web, GUI, console, service, and webservice applications. Java can do most of that too, except it's not .NET, and it can run on many platforms.

Basically, I'm saying you're going about this wrong. You don't say "what's the #1 programming language?", you say "let's start learning languages, and I'll pick up any new ones I need to do the job".

Learning Ruby isn't a bad idea. Learning C# isn't a bad idea (that's the language I work in). Learning almost any language isn't a bad idea. But if you have limited bandwidth to learn, or limited funding, or whatever, learn what's going to be the most immediately useful for you. If you're saying that most of the jobs in your area are C# jobs, learn C#. But it's not "universal" or even the most common/popular. Do some research, find out what's used in your area, and focus on that.

ahh i see
I get it now.
well the problem here is that.. the camp that I'm going to says that they only teach Ruby on Rails as a language and other things for programming.
after I finish camp, I'm only going to know the language Ruby and other concepts of programming I need in order to work.
after reading some articles about programming, it seems that i should be able to use multiple languages to start a business since some languages are used for different types of OS..
is it a good idea to go to the camp and come out as a ruby programmer, and then learning C# and C++ (or Java) by myself through internet?
would that give me a good background to start a business?

View Postbaavgai, on 03 July 2014 - 01:01 PM, said:

Ok, ruby is a language. It's a general purpose language. That means you should be able to solve most programming problems with it. However, there a places where some other general purpose language might be better suited.

Rails is a web development framework. There is no ruby on rails language. So, a rails application is a web application, with all the benefits and pitfalls of any other web application.

C# is a major component in Microsoft's development suit. If you want to develop a Windows client app, it can pretty much do it all. There are things C# is used for that ruby would be a very poor choice for.

Also, there are programs for which both ruby and C# would not be a good choice.

There are many, many places where programs run. And not all tools are a good choice for all places.

The question is not "do I need to learn X." Rather, it's "will I always be able to use X." The answer is no, you will not always be able to use Ruby on Rails to solve a problem.


i see.
What I aim to do is to make websites and softwares like games and utilities for smartphones.
i have one more question...
I hear programmers say 'solve a problem' with a language.
don't programmers use the language in order to build a software or a website, not just solve a problem?
or is there a different meaning in solving a problem?
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#11 modi123_1  Icon User is offline

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Re: Do I need to learn C# if I learn Ruby on Rails?

Posted 03 July 2014 - 01:13 PM

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is it a good idea to go to the camp and come out as a ruby programmer, and then learning C# and C++ (or Java) by myself through internet?
would that give me a good background to start a business?

Mmmm... it takes more than a "code camp" and a programming language to start a business. You know that, right?

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I hear programmers say 'solve a problem' with a language.
don't programmers use the language in order to build a software or a website, not just solve a problem?
or is there a different meaning in solving a problem?

The problem is the lack of a website, or a site with specific features.. or a specific need for an application to cover.

There is a larger meaning to problem than say word or math problems like "two plus two equals chair".
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#12 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is online

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Re: Do I need to learn C# if I learn Ruby on Rails?

Posted 03 July 2014 - 01:13 PM

Whjat is the deal with these "dev boot camps"? Why does anyone think programming is the sort of thing you can learn in a few weeks?

Pro tip: if you could learn to be a competent programmer in a "boot camp", the field would be so crowded you'd be making minimum wage. What you'll learn from a "boot camp" is how to reheat pre-cooked solutions, not how to actually develop anything useful.

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I don't want to go to a college for this as I'm going into ministry after 15 years of business.


Fifteen years is a good long time to spend doing something. Might be worth learning to do it right, don't you think?
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#13 baavgai  Icon User is offline

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Re: Do I need to learn C# if I learn Ruby on Rails?

Posted 03 July 2014 - 03:01 PM

View Postandrewkim9711, on 03 July 2014 - 04:08 PM, said:

I hear programmers say 'solve a problem' with a language.
don't programmers use the language in order to build a software or a website, not just solve a problem?
or is there a different meaning in solving a problem?


Heh. No, you got it.

In a macro sense, the problem to solve is "I need a program that does X."

However, any program is essentially a suite of problems that need to be solved. Consider a website. You need to offer the user a page. That page, a response to a user request, is made up of many smaller problems: designing layout, pulling data, checking user authentication, changing display based on state, and on, and on.

A program is a solution to problem, that contains many smaller problems, that in turn contain... you get the idea.
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#14 tlhIn`toq  Icon User is offline

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Re: Do I need to learn C# if I learn Ruby on Rails?

Posted 03 July 2014 - 06:08 PM

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Do I need to learn C# if I learn Ruby on Rails?

Do I need to learn welding if I learn woodworking?

The answer is: That depends on what you want to do for a living.

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my ultimate goal is to start a business that makes websites and softwares

First: Those are two entirely different careers. The fact that they are both done on a computer doesn't make them the same thing or even the same skillset. Its like saying:
"I want to learn to drive so I can become a trucker and a taxi driver." Sure they are kinda similar and both use vehicles, but...

Why do you think you want to start a business doing one of these things? You clearly haven't looked at any of the actual requirements for either. So why do you think you want to do it for a living? Honestly, you sound a like every 15 year old out there that thinks because they enjoy playing games they would be good at making them, and think being employed as a game developer is really about getting paid to play all day. I think you are confusing surfing the web with making web sites.

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is it a good idea to go to the camp and come out as a ruby programmer, and then learning C# and C++ (or Java) by myself through internet?
would that give me a good background to start a business?

I just have to ask: Are you really so naive and sheltered in the ways of the real world that you actually beleave that - or are you just screwing with us to see how far you can go off into SillyVille and still have us respond seriously?

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I don't want to go to a college for this as I'm going into ministry after 15 years of business.

Grow up and get serious. You have no clue what you're doing in 15 years; nobody does. I'm pretty sure every 16 year old out there 'decided' they were going to go into business, be wealthy by the age of 30, settle down with a busty blond, and not be like their parents. But in the real world, things happen that take you off path. After 15 years in business (assuming that works out) do you really think you're going to give up the money, freedom, Starbucks and sex to go be a minister? Sure some people do it. But you can't decide now that you will because the 'you' of 2014 has no idea what the 'you' of 2029 is going to be like. You might be a minister. You might be a married salesman for Snap•On tools that has a mortgage and two college educations to save for.

I strongly suggest you seek out a career councilor at your school to help you get a handle on what it really takes to do the things you think you are going to do. Make a plan with the help of someone that has been through it already, knows you better than us bunch of strangers on the internet, and can help guide you based on your strengths.

This post has been edited by tlhIn`toq: 03 July 2014 - 06:10 PM

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#15 farrell2k  Icon User is offline

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Re: Do I need to learn C# if I learn Ruby on Rails?

Posted 04 July 2014 - 03:27 AM

You don't really learn "programming" at these camps. You learn markup with html5, css, and javascript, then usually simple crud db skills. You'll end the course with more front-end development skills than anything else, and that may be all you really need. As for learning c#, don't bother. It's a nice language and all, but if you go to one of these bootcamps, you're better off concentrating on php and or ruby and rails. When you move into something like rails, php, java, etc, you are so far out of the Microsoft camp that there is little reason to bother with it. You can always learn it later if you ever need to.
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