Let's throw out the moral, ethical, and legal issues for a moment

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46 Replies - 4305 Views - Last Post: 09 July 2014 - 08:33 PM

#16 lordofduct  Icon User is offline

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Re: Let's throw out the moral, ethical, and legal issues for a moment

Posted 08 July 2014 - 08:31 AM

View Postge∅, on 08 July 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

There is a difference between ignoring the rules and going against the rules. The OP's question doesn't suggest you should come up with immoral experiments, it just says that you should free your mind. Exactly like a developer would say to a designer "don't pollute yourself with implementation constraints now, we'll see that later". It doesn't mean "please make it next to impossible to implement on purpose, I like it when it hurts".


Yeah... no.

If that's what the OP intended, well the OP poisoned the well by injecting all the hub-bub about ethics and morality. Why mention that if that's not what OP was shooting for?
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#17 ge∅  Icon User is offline

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Re: Let's throw out the moral, ethical, and legal issues for a moment

Posted 08 July 2014 - 08:43 AM

My first guess would be : because you can't conduct a "ground-breaking experiment" otherwise. There are always consequences.
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#18 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: Let's throw out the moral, ethical, and legal issues for a moment

Posted 08 July 2014 - 08:49 AM

Ground breaking experiments - does that exclude things like that hadron collier? Any numerous space experiments happening now?
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#19 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is offline

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Re: Let's throw out the moral, ethical, and legal issues for a moment

Posted 08 July 2014 - 08:55 AM

View PostLieoften, on 08 July 2014 - 02:39 AM, said:

So--I've been asking this question around a lot lately, mostly because i'm always interested in what peoples responses will be. But lets say you in granted immunity from any legal, ethical or moral repercussions and could conduct one ground-breaking experiment. what would that experiment be?



Clearly, as a linguist, I have only one choice: The Forbidden Experiment

Which has actually been tried, in some senses, and the results have been more or less what theory predicted, so it's not all that exciting.

View Postmodi123_1, on 08 July 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

Ground breaking experiments - does that exclude things like that hadron collier? Any numerous space experiments happening now?



Good point - there was a huge amount of construction required for that one.


Other ground-breaking experiments might include work on human-induced seismic activity...
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#20 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: Let's throw out the moral, ethical, and legal issues for a moment

Posted 08 July 2014 - 08:56 AM

"Forbidden Experiment"? I think that was a movie I caught on late night Cinemax or youporn. It seemed pretty legit.
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#21 no2pencil  Icon User is offline

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Re: Let's throw out the moral, ethical, and legal issues for a moment

Posted 08 July 2014 - 08:58 AM

View Postmodi123_1, on 08 July 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

"Forbidden Experiment"? I think that was a movie I caught on late night Cinemax


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#22 supersloth  Icon User is offline

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Re: Let's throw out the moral, ethical, and legal issues for a moment

Posted 08 July 2014 - 09:01 AM

probably something involving my penis and all of you.
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#23 depricated  Icon User is offline

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Re: Let's throw out the moral, ethical, and legal issues for a moment

Posted 08 July 2014 - 09:20 AM

View Postmodi123_1, on 08 July 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

That's stretching the linux of the joke, right?


"Sweet Dreams" - isn't that the chain Italian restaurant that serves up the best linus tortellini in artichoke kernels?

I think I just heard Reddit orgasm
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#24 NeoTifa  Icon User is online

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Re: Let's throw out the moral, ethical, and legal issues for a moment

Posted 08 July 2014 - 09:25 AM

View Postsupersloth, on 08 July 2014 - 12:01 PM, said:

probably something involving my penis and all of you.


... go on...
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#25 ge∅  Icon User is offline

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Re: Let's throw out the moral, ethical, and legal issues for a moment

Posted 08 July 2014 - 09:29 AM

View Postmodi123_1, on 08 July 2014 - 04:49 PM, said:

Ground breaking experiments - does that exclude things like that hadron collier? Any numerous space experiments happening now?


OK, good point, although this kind of experiments don't have a direct impact on the planet. If they do, it's not caused by the experiment but by our understanding of the results, which is slightly different and not very interesting in the context of this thread (even though not off-topic).
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#26 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: Let's throw out the moral, ethical, and legal issues for a moment

Posted 08 July 2014 - 09:33 AM

Are you not aware of the controversy surrounding the LHC and the potential to make a black hole? Yeah.. that's bad juju.. and I would certainly say that impacts the planet.


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this kind of experiments don't have a direct impact on the planet. If they do, it's not caused by the experiment but by our understanding of the results

It's that true of, well, all experiments? Experiments are procedures that generate results of what was tested, discovery, validation, etc.
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#27 ge∅  Icon User is offline

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Re: Let's throw out the moral, ethical, and legal issues for a moment

Posted 08 July 2014 - 11:23 AM

It was no controversy, it has always been bullshit, from the beginning. People just don't want to know. They accept the first answer they read and just avoid to think or dig further. It's annoying.

Roughly it said "if it required less energy to create black holes so small they should vanish instantly without having the time to grab anything anyway (woops), the LHC could have the power to destroy the world !".

To begin with, this assumption only works if there are at least 6 more spacial dimensions that dilute gravity's strength (this is suggested by some of the Strings theory forks which weren't more popular among physicists than the Standard Model involving the Higgs Boson at the time but were very popular among people because... they're cool ?).

But, above all, it was omitting the annoying fact that there are protons, composing the cosmic rays, that impact our atmosphere everyday with energies far beyond what the LHC is capable of without doing any harm. Every physicists knew this at the time but media love cataclysms.

This post has been edited by ge∅: 08 July 2014 - 11:34 AM

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#28 Lieoften  Icon User is offline

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Re: Let's throw out the moral, ethical, and legal issues for a moment

Posted 08 July 2014 - 11:54 AM

View Postlordofduct, on 08 July 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

If that's what the OP intended, well the OP poisoned the well by injecting all the hub-bub about ethics and morality. Why mention that if that's not what OP was shooting for?


Actually--ge∅ is correct. in pretty much every single one of Their posts regarding my original post. If i had come in here and simply said "IF you could do one experiment, what would you do?" Chances are I would've gotten a lot of people looking to do things that have already been done.

If you throw in the exact title of what I've posted, you narrow down the line a lot more and get more interesting responses, and you get a brief glimpse into the soul of the replier.

I've also seen a couple of posts regarding the nazi comment at the bottom of my OP, and I would just like to point out that I wasn't calling those people nazis. they themselves called themselves nazis in multiple occasions during the other discussions. Don't get me wrong, there were a lot of good people in there too--Organ farming via cloning, genetic enigneering to help prevent major ailments that kill people every day, et cetera et cetera, but the large majority of their responses were (in no particular order):
  • Wipe Humanity Clean
  • Killing off a certain race/culture/genetic trait
  • Master Race
  • and a lot of people looking to do essentially the plot of Lord of The Flies.

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#29 no2pencil  Icon User is offline

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Re: Let's throw out the moral, ethical, and legal issues for a moment

Posted 08 July 2014 - 11:58 AM

View PostLieoften, on 08 July 2014 - 02:54 PM, said:

there were a lot of good people in there too--Organ farming via cloning, genetic enigneering to help prevent major ailments that kill people every day, et cetera et cetera, but the large majority of their responses were (in no particular order):
  • Wipe Humanity Clean
  • Killing off a certain race/culture/genetic trait
  • Master Race
  • and a lot of people looking to do essentially the plot of Lord of The Flies.

I don't see how the above list is an 'experiment'. They are actions towards a goal. Attempting to reach a specific outcome. I would expect an experiment to be : What happens when I put tin-foil in the microwave.
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#30 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: Let's throw out the moral, ethical, and legal issues for a moment

Posted 08 July 2014 - 12:03 PM

All I heard was "blah blah blah.. I want to take irrational risks with the universe.. blah blah blah". F'n hubris man... HUBRIS! All it takes is a small black hole to rear up, present itself, and wait for the right time to be penetrated with extraneous matter to gorge itself on. Spilled coffee, an extra squirt of hand lotion, or really dense crop dusting from a previous night's bender of cheap beer and taco trucks. You saw what happens when you give a mouse a cookie, right? Think what would happen if you had a fist full of cookies shoved right up a black hole!
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Orgee-borgee, bork bork! Look at me! I can haz the science too!

Quote

This new discovery is rooted in Einstein's theory of relativity. First, through his famous equation E = mc2, Einstein revealed that mass and energy are related. This means the greater the energy of a particle — say, the faster a particle gets accelerated in a collider — the greater its mass becomes.

Next, Einstein's theory explains that mass curves the fabric of space and time, generating the phenomenon known as gravity. As particles zip along within particle colliders, they warp space-timeand can focus energy much as glass lenses focus light.

When two particles collide, each one can focus the energy of the other. If scientists use models based on classical relativity that exclude notions of extra dimensions, "one might expect black hole formation at one-third the energy" than previously expected, researcher Frans Pretorius, a theoretical physicist at Princeton University, told LiveScience.

Still, conventional physics suggest it would take a quadrillion, or a million-billion, times more energy to form a microscopic black hole than the Large Hadron Collider is capable of, so even a third of that is beyond human reach. Scenarios based on extra dimensions could have black holes form at a lower energy, "but they make no concrete predictions on what it should be," Pretorius said.

http://www.livescien...lack-holes.html

All it takes is a particle to know that if your not first, you're last. It's the fastest who get paid and it's the fastest who get laid All I ask is - do any of you guys wanna go fast?

---

@lies - again it is an issue of asking people to frame things through a specific lens (or lack there of), but then critiqueing them via the very framework you told them to avoid. Outside of generating some chuckles at the expense of the interwebz, not good plan there, brah.

@no2 - agreed.. an experiment would explain procedures not some end action.
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