Interesting points on the jury system

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#1 Damage  Icon User is offline

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Interesting points on the jury system

Posted 15 January 2015 - 12:08 PM

Came across this slashdot article about the Silk Road trial, and it raises some interesting questions about the use of the word peer. Traditionally it's been average citizens that make about the jury but as we start moving into an era where cybercrime is starting to step up, does an "average" person really have the rights to be passing judgement on something they probably don't fully understand?

I'm not trying to come off as elitist or some other patronizing bullshit, i just figure that if you're determining someone's future you should kinda know what's going on

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#2 no2pencil  Icon User is online

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Re: Interesting points on the jury system

Posted 15 January 2015 - 12:12 PM

Same could be set for a mechanic on trial for not performing something from a bill, or people that are afraid of guns may not be the best 'peer' in a gun related incident.

Either (& your example as well) include elements of fear, preconceived notions, & (non-insulting) ignorance.

So introducing computers or internet really is nothing new. Random people have always brought random exposure to the trial.
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#3 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: Interesting points on the jury system

Posted 15 January 2015 - 12:21 PM

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i just figure that if you're determining someone's future you should kinda know what's going on


You don't say... The House of Representatives Committee on Science is turning into a national embarrassment


Back to the topic - of course you may have people like Sheldon Cooper who would claim he has no peers and cannot be tried..


Finding A Jury Of Your Peers Actually Is Pretty Complicated

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Also.. let's be clear - the 'jury of peers' is not in the constitution. It is "by an impartial jury". Doing some back checking the 'jury of your peers' is the Magna Carta and that was to ensure the nobles were only judged by other nobles and not filthy peasants.


Annotation 5 - Sixth Amendment
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#4 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is offline

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Re: Interesting points on the jury system

Posted 15 January 2015 - 02:14 PM

View PostDamage, on 15 January 2015 - 02:08 PM, said:

does an "average" person really have the rights to be passing judgement on something they probably don't fully understand?



Serving on a jury isn't so much a "right" as a responsibility. As a US citizen, not much is asked of you, but jury duty is one of those things.
And it seems to me that it's up to the prosecution and the defense to make the issues clear. The usual approach, in cases dealing with complex technical issues, is to bring in expert witnesses. If I were asked, I would suggest getting Cory Doctorow and Randall Munroe.
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#5 ybadragon  Icon User is online

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Re: Interesting points on the jury system

Posted 15 January 2015 - 02:42 PM

It's a dumb responsibility. I have more important things to do with my time than argue about whether or not a person is guilty of a crime. It doesn't effect my life in any way if that person goes to jail or not.
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#6 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is offline

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Re: Interesting points on the jury system

Posted 15 January 2015 - 02:49 PM

That's why it's a "responsibility". We all have more important things to do with our time, but this is something that you agree to if you're going to hold US citizenship. If you don't like it, there are many countries in the world without trial by jury. You're free to emigrate, if they'll have you.

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It doesn't effect my life in any way if that person goes to jail or not.


If it did directly affect you, you would not be eligible to serve on the jury. That's kind of the point.
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#7 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: Interesting points on the jury system

Posted 15 January 2015 - 02:50 PM

Why would you be arguing? As a juror you are adjudicating.

It is beneficial to society as a whole and full fills part of that social contract
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#8 astonecipher  Icon User is offline

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Re: Interesting points on the jury system

Posted 15 January 2015 - 02:50 PM

Who h is a bad thing. Think about being indicted for something you honestly didn't do. The only thing stopping what will happen is the trust you put into a jury to see why you didn't do it.


And there have been several cases where it wasn't until much later the convict was vindicated and set free.
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#9 ybadragon  Icon User is online

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Re: Interesting points on the jury system

Posted 15 January 2015 - 02:54 PM

View Postmodi123_1, on 15 January 2015 - 04:50 PM, said:

Why would you be arguing? As a juror you are adjudicating.

It is beneficial to society as a whole and full fills part of that social contract



The jury decides as a whole whether or not the person is guilty. They argue the final decision amongst each other.

I never signed a social contract >_>
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#10 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: Interesting points on the jury system

Posted 15 January 2015 - 02:59 PM

*shrug* Some jury's argue, and some don't. Not all of them are "Twelve Angry Men".

Spoiler

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#11 supersloth  Icon User is offline

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Re: Interesting points on the jury system

Posted 15 January 2015 - 03:12 PM

View Postybadragon, on 15 January 2015 - 02:42 PM, said:

It's a dumb responsibility. I have more important things to do with my time than argue about whether or not a person is guilty of a crime. It doesn't effect my life in any way if that person goes to jail or not.

god this is fucking dumb. i hope you end up on trial one day and everyone is just like 'fuck him, doesn't effect me whether this dude rots in jail'

let me also just add that you're kind of a shit head who most assuredly does not have anything better to do than make sure justice is served to your fellow man.
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#12 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is offline

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Re: Interesting points on the jury system

Posted 15 January 2015 - 03:28 PM

View Postybadragon, on 15 January 2015 - 04:54 PM, said:

I never signed a social contract >_>


No, but I bet you'd squeal like a stuck pig if you ever thought your rights (also part of the social contract) were being violated.

View Postsupersloth, on 15 January 2015 - 05:12 PM, said:

let me also just add that you're kind of a shit head who most assuredly does not have anything better to do than make sure justice is served to your fellow man.


Now, now. Let's watch our language.

Spoiler

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#13 depricated  Icon User is offline

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Re: Interesting points on the jury system

Posted 16 January 2015 - 05:14 AM

View Postybadragon, on 15 January 2015 - 02:54 PM, said:

I never signed a social contract >_>

But you did. When you registered to vote, you also registered for jury placement. I do believe it's even on the form.

The system is fucked by apathy and agenda - and not just the jury system. It's a problem endemic of every government office and agency. Your sentiment of "It doesn't effect[sic] my life," is exactly the problem, too.

You may not see how it impacts you, but it does. You may not see the result 5 minutes after your decision, or even 5 years, but it's there. The pebble does not see the mountain. Do you also refrain from voting on issues because they don't directly affect you?
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#14 ybadragon  Icon User is online

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Re: Interesting points on the jury system

Posted 16 January 2015 - 06:58 AM

Well that escalated quickly. Anyway, no I don't vote. No I don't see a reason to. Bottom line, it's my opinion and everyone has one. Did I get angry with any of you? No. Did I attempt to insult any of you? No.
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#15 depricated  Icon User is offline

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Re: Interesting points on the jury system

Posted 16 January 2015 - 07:06 AM

View Postybadragon, on 16 January 2015 - 06:58 AM, said:

Anyway, no I don't vote. No I don't see a reason to. Bottom line, it's my opinion and everyone has one.

If you choose not to vote, then your opinion is worth fuck all. You're why evil laws get passed.
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