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#1 FanFanS  Icon User is offline

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Mmo game engine and or programming language

Posted 28 July 2015 - 06:45 AM

Greetings

I have a question, I will first lay down the situation.

My expertise is based on 15 years of online marketing and website development. The website development is reduced to using CMS's and modifying extensions, plugins, etc. Although I have a programming diploma, I have never practiced coding too much, so my knowledge is basic, I forgot a lot of things I have learned back then.

What I want to achieve.

I want to move into mmo text-based games, and see how things go. I want to create a medieval mmorpg game. I live medieval history, and I don't see any medieval text-based game that offers what I want to achieve. I know the games in the niche, and they are pretty restricted as game play. I want to make it text-based because my knowledge is limited now, and I also want to target people that want to play it a bit at work, a bit on the road, etc. A game that requires download or extended graphics might be an issue. I have to expertise to market it, I have the ideas, a framework to work on, but I have no idea where to start in terms of programming or game engines to use.

An example of game in the niche, somehow similar to what I want to do, but yet far away on what I want to offer:
http://www.renaissancekingdoms.com


A very rough resume on the game ideas:

Religions entities - Kingdoms entities > Non affiliated organizations entities
Pope will have the same same power as the kings. Leaders of NAO will have the power granted by the money they make, relations they have, etc.

Alliance entity > Kingdoms entities > Regions entities > Cities entities
Alliance leaders > Kings and queens > Nobles, vassals and stuff > Regular people > NPC characters like peasants, regular soldiers, etc.

Ruler position can be conquered through rebellion or once every 6 months through elections. Any non religion player can be part of this.
Pope position can be attained every 6 months through elections by any religion official like this. 1 NPC candidate. 1 candidate designated by the former pope - himself or another, his choice. 1 candidate picked by the 1st tier of officials from a list where every 1st tier official can register - the one who gets the most votes is the official candidate, if votes are tied, the richest one, else the smarter one, etc. Tier 2 picks an option, tier 3 picks an option, etc. Not realistic, but I want everybody to have access to the full game. I will use the NPC candidate if there is no proper candidate or if I want to modify the religion standings.

Pope can excommunicate kingdoms if various conditions are met, king can become heretic by choice with huge religious, production and military penalties.
Pope names and revokes tier 1, tier 2, tier 3 officials, t1 officials can name and revoke tier 2, tier 3, etc. If local kings refuse the access to an official, the pope can excommunicate them or give orders to the other kingdoms to gather armies to defeat the infidels.

Alliance leaders have the veto on what the alliance can do, but the alliance members are free to choose what to do.

Kings can name officials, takes taxes from their lands, a share of taxes from the vassals and nobles, can ask for soldiers, request for a building to be built or demolished ( exceptional situations ) in a province, request for clothes, food and weapons for the soldiers.

Both religious and kingdom entities will own mines, forests, etc, in each kingdom.

NPC characters - Rebels, Cardinals, historical personalities, peasants, regular soldiers, etc, that will affect the game.

War - Economy - Justice system.

Etc, etc, etc.

What people can do in the game - very small examples:
They register, pick a kingdom. They have to eat ( click on things in inventory and eat, or eat at a tavern ), sleep ( purchase houses, click on bed in the house, sleep, a timer appears until they wake up ), fight ( click on invite to duel, or attack, chances are calculated etc ), players have stats that affect crafting time and quality, kings pick vasals, officials, they tax people, etc, etc.
Game will have a European map, I will start with the full map, all kingdoms, but beside the first kingdom where the players will start, Rome and the neighbour ones, the rest of the map will be filled with NPC characters, and a population relative to the medieval time I will pick.

The game will have nice graphics, but static ones.

And now the question: What game engine or/and programming language should I focus on to develop such a thing? For now, I want to start it myself, get the hangs of it, learn, and at some point in the future hire extra hands. But first I want to learn about things myself, because I want to know what is all about, what can be done easily, hardly, or can't be done ( if such things exist ). I want to lay out the basics myself. I can't be a good manager of such a thing if I don't know what can be done, and what can I ask to the people that help on the project.

Thank you, and sorry for the long lines.

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Replies To: Mmo game engine and or programming language

#2 modi123_1  Icon User is offline

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Re: Mmo game engine and or programming language

Posted 28 July 2015 - 06:54 AM

Quote

What game engine or/and programming language should I focus on to develop such a thing?


Where's the basic design?

Is this going to be a web page, desktop app, or mobile? If not a webpage then what OS do you want to focus on?

I honestly doubt there is an 'engine' designed for what you are doing, but you can certainly poke the results of a search like 'text mmo engine'. I am guessing you'll be rolling your own client and web server responses/actions.
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#3 FanFanS  Icon User is offline

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Re: Mmo game engine and or programming language

Posted 28 July 2015 - 07:07 AM

Where's the basic design?

No basic design yet. There will be a main screen from where people can access the map, the local buildings, inventory, etc.

Map will be something like this: http://prntscr.com/7xzcmi - this is an image map I made for one of the games, I have no online version sadly now, I will load one if needed. When player clicks a region, a popup appears with a link to travel ( if travel conditions are met ). Clicking it will give a player a status like travel time: 2 hours, where he is locked from doing anything else. When time expires, he is spawned in the new location.

Local buildings will include pictures of the local built buildings. Clicking on them will give menus to what player can do.

Inventory will contain a list of the items in the inventory, with a small image beside the text. Clicking on them will open up a popup menu with options.

Etc. I will return with a basic layout if needed.

This is going to be a webpage, text-based in-browser rpg.

results of a search like 'text mmo engine' I did that, and I think I have to do everything from scratch. That's how I ended up here, after various searches on game development, mmo engines, text or no text, etc.
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#4 modi123_1  Icon User is offline

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Re: Mmo game engine and or programming language

Posted 28 July 2015 - 07:13 AM

Then yup.. you'll have to do it by hand. HTML/CSS/JS front end client stuff.. php/ruby/etc as your server side language.. a database to hold user data, game data, trigger info, etc.
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#5 FanFanS  Icon User is offline

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Re: Mmo game engine and or programming language

Posted 28 July 2015 - 07:16 AM

HTML/CSS = experienced user.
The others basic. So I will have to see what advantages and disadvantages are for these "things". I look at ruby like a big nasty T-Rex looking to eat me.

Thanks. Will see what any other answers will be around here, and then inspect a bit the options, and see what I can do about it.
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#6 modi123_1  Icon User is offline

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Re: Mmo game engine and or programming language

Posted 28 July 2015 - 07:17 AM

*shrug* Okay.. it's a basic web page. Client side, server side, database. Like a content management system, but the content is data geared for a game and facts/numbers/etc stored in the database tables.
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#7 FanFanS  Icon User is offline

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Re: Mmo game engine and or programming language

Posted 28 July 2015 - 07:24 AM

As you put it, it looks pretty simple. We shall see what that means when my "intellect" takes control.
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#8 modi123_1  Icon User is offline

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Re: Mmo game engine and or programming language

Posted 28 July 2015 - 07:29 AM

Huh?
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#9 FanFanS  Icon User is offline

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Re: Mmo game engine and or programming language

Posted 28 July 2015 - 07:32 AM

Hm, it seems my conversational skills are pretty low. I meant that as you explained and tailored the ideas, it looks pretty simple to achieve what I want, if you have an appropriate knowledge of the requirements. But related to my programming skills, which for now are basic, I can modify, but it's hard to create from scratch, it will be difficult for me.
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#10 modi123_1  Icon User is offline

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Re: Mmo game engine and or programming language

Posted 28 July 2015 - 07:34 AM

Then learn how to use php, html, css, javascript, and basic database interaction. If those are the skills you need to start to make your plan work then pick them up so you can apply them in concert.
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#11 FanFanS  Icon User is offline

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Re: Mmo game engine and or programming language

Posted 28 July 2015 - 07:35 AM

Yup, that's what I am going to do. I appreciate the insights, because I needed a starting point.
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#12 BBeck  Icon User is offline

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Re: Mmo game engine and or programming language

Posted 28 July 2015 - 02:05 PM

This sounds like a fairly challenging programming project actually. There are probably many 2D game projects (and maybe even a couple 3D game projects) that would be more simple than this. You're talking about all the real core of an MMORPG except the graphics and sound. This may be more difficult than you imagine.

But that being said, you might want to play a few MUDs. Unfortunately, I missed all that somehow. I guess you would have had to be an early adopter of the Internet and it's predecessors in order to have really been there in their heyday.

But I think about 5 years ago, I was messing around with Linux and started joining MUDs largely out of boredom with current games. A couple were probably something back in their day.

MUDs these days are largely run by their diehard fans from times past because I doubt any of them are still very active. If you get 10 people simultaneously playing on your MUD that would be pretty impressive. But some of them must have been pretty awesome back when they had a large user base.

Anyway, I think a lot of them are open source and such where you can either get the source code and such for the MUD, or you can get source code for the engine used to create the MUD. So, I think there are several MUD engines out there. A quick google search turned up CoffeeMud but I suspect there are a bunch out there.

You can use an engine like that to make a MUD, or you could go the longer route and use that engine code to build your own MUD engine customized more to your own liking.
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#13 FanFanS  Icon User is offline

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Re: Mmo game engine and or programming language

Posted 28 July 2015 - 02:44 PM

Well I imagine it to be very very difficult. I might sound positive, but in the actual position, it will be very difficult to achieve even a basic game.

Regarding players of MUD, the example I gave you in the first post has 867 online players as I write this. 3.5 millions registered users over time. I think a MUD can have potential with the right ideas. If you don't have a valuable option to play a niche game, MUDS or non MUDS, you will play a MUD that immerses you in the atmosphere you desire. The niche lacks options with valuable content.

I am not worried about attracting players. That side is pretty easy, I do that for 15 years now. Sadly I ignored the programming side. I know how to raise interest, I know how to look for targeted surfers, etc.

I checked CoffeeMud too, I checked many websites, yet mostly are pretty basic and or inactive, so I think the good option is to try and do it myself, since in this area, things update and change pretty fast. At least until I will know how to manage things, there are enough people to hire if you know what you are doing. For now I don't, it's just an idea I have, and I can't jump in it just because I have it.

Also, a successful mud can be turned into a graphic game, and develop on it. And this is not a project that will define my success, it's not make it or brake it. Incidentally I have helped a bit into another game in the same niche with marketing, yet I got fed up with the lack of proper measures and I don't like wasting my time barking at the moon. The guy is making a fair amount of money with a pretty basic niche MUD, with zero knowledge of advertising. He just got the players because it's a niche game. No links, no marketing, no proper website, no nothing. A good game, the game is not awful, but it's just about it.

And regarding game development, I can bet that reaching his programming skills would not require more than a year of practical learning, given that I am already accustomed to this, and in college I really knew this, because else my non-conformist attitude would have most probably got me expelled in the first year. I missed that several times by the millimeter :whistling:

I want to try and do something better, with a proper story, rules, options. If I make it, it would be awesome, because I love the niche. Else, a project like many other ones that did not work. It's been many years since I am thinking about this, and I want to start from something and see how it fares.

Question. Is html+css+php+mysql a good starting point? I know html+css by the book, php in terms of editing it, and mysql basics.

Cheers
Stefan

View PostFanFanS, on 28 July 2015 - 02:40 PM, said:

I know html+css by the book, php in terms of editing it, and mysql basics.


The assumption is that I will improve php and mysql skills. In september I am starting some private classes to work on my programming and remember this area. It's a 3 year thing, but you can finish it in 6 months if you are not a beginner and/or learn fast. At least I am not a beginner, how fast I shall learn I will see. It's not an online thing, it's a multi national company, and until I start, I want to get an idea on what I have to improve to be able to develop such a game type.

Regarding what I need for my websites, I already know what I have to learn.
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