Python really works on my tits!

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#1 smallB  Icon User is offline

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Python really works on my tits!

Posted 21 January 2016 - 10:17 AM

I'm C++ programmer with some years of experience.
I seriously cannot understand the hype python gets. More productive, readable, etc? I don't buy it. If one uses modern C++ that is C++11/14/17 one can be not only as productive as the guy who uses python, and one can write more readable code than the guy who uses python. But that's not everything when writing software, is it? There is the performance which python simply don't have it and there is also the maintenance which excuse my french but with python's idiotic rules about indentation make the maintenance of any sizable python code base a real nightmare.
Seriously can somebody explain to me why python enjoys such hype and popularity?
Thank you

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#2 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is online

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Re: Python really works on my tits!

Posted 21 January 2016 - 10:21 AM

Not sure what you mean about python's indentation rules being a problem. I can think of a few things to be concerned about with python, but indentation isn't one of them. Why is this an issue for you?

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But that's not everything when writing software, is it?


Well, it's not everything but it's close to the top of the pile of things that matter. If your code isn't readable, there's no point in writing it.
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#3 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: Python really works on my tits!

Posted 21 January 2016 - 10:22 AM

Giant standard library.. great for web apps.. no compile issues.. no memory management.. but then again comparing C++ to Python is certainly a comparison of apples to limes.

If python's not for you then it's not for you.
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#4 no2pencil  Icon User is offline

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Re: Python really works on my tits!

Posted 21 January 2016 - 10:25 AM

My understanding of python usage has nothing to do with C/C++ replacement, but for web applications. Python offers a small footprint, mixed with shops wanting to be cutting edge. I've never really questioned it, it is what it is.
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#5 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is online

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Re: Python really works on my tits!

Posted 21 January 2016 - 10:29 AM

View Postmodi123_1, on 21 January 2016 - 12:22 PM, said:

a comparison of apples to limes.


Both of which are sources for derogatory references to Englishmen ("pommies" and "limies")...
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#6 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: Python really works on my tits!

Posted 21 January 2016 - 10:31 AM

Ah.. okay? Is..is what I said going to chap more 'tits' or ruffle their wee bird feathers to the point of extreme red agitation?
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#7 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is online

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Re: Python really works on my tits!

Posted 21 January 2016 - 10:33 AM

No, just interesting to note that they're vaguely related, and thus comparable in some sense.
(and my tests are running slow, so I'm a little more free-associatey than usual)
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#8 smallB  Icon User is offline

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Re: Python really works on my tits!

Posted 21 January 2016 - 10:34 AM

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Well, it's not everything but it's close to the top of the pile of things that matter. If your code isn't readable, there's no point in writing it.

My point is that well written C++ is as readable as python. Or better.
As for indentation being an issue? Sure, some code taken from https://wiki.python....SimplePrograms:
# This program adds up integers in the command line
import sys
try:
    total = sum(int(arg) for arg in sys.argv[1:])
     print 'sum =', total
except ValueError:
     print 'Please supply integer arguments'


This code will not compile. Why? Because indentation is incorrect? How silly is that? No, seriously, how silly is that?
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#9 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is online

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Re: Python really works on my tits!

Posted 21 January 2016 - 10:40 AM

Given the pain in the ass that bad indentation causes when you're trying to maintain code, and the triviality of getting it right in the first place, that's flippin' fantastic.

Turn it around: python shows us that a language can enforce a basic element of programming style that makes life easier for everyone working on the code, and it adds no burden on the programmer. So how silly would it be to use a language that doesn't do that?
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#10 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: Python really works on my tits!

Posted 21 January 2016 - 10:40 AM

Let's step back and ask the more important question - did some python fanatic pee in your cheerios this morning? Why are you so desperately looking to argue some point about a c++ to python comparison?
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Re: Python really works on my tits!

Posted 21 January 2016 - 10:42 AM

View PostsmallB, on 21 January 2016 - 10:34 AM, said:

Quote

Well, it's not everything but it's close to the top of the pile of things that matter. If your code isn't readable, there's no point in writing it.

My point is that well written C++ is as readable as python. Or better.
As for indentation being an issue? Sure, some code taken from https://wiki.python....SimplePrograms:

I say more, this code will not compile!!!
# This program adds up integers in the command line
import sys
try:
     total = sum(int(arg) for arg in sys.argv[1:])
     print 'sum =', total
except ValueError:
     print 'Please supply integer arguments'


How silly is that? No, seriously, how silly is that?

View Postjon.kiparsky, on 21 January 2016 - 10:40 AM, said:

Given the pain in the ass that bad indentation causes when you're trying to maintain code, and the triviality of getting it right in the first place, that's flippin' fantastic.

The point is that with C++ I have choice how I can format my code, with python I don't. Is that fantastic? I really don't think so.
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#12 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: Python really works on my tits!

Posted 21 January 2016 - 10:42 AM

I'll restate my position a little more clearly - who frigg'n cares?
Spoiler

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Re: Python really works on my tits!

Posted 21 January 2016 - 10:43 AM

Oh, well. Good thing there's plenty of places hiring C++ programmers, and there's plenty of places hiring python programmers, so we're both pretty well taken care of.
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Re: Python really works on my tits!

Posted 21 January 2016 - 10:49 AM

View Postmodi123_1, on 21 January 2016 - 10:40 AM, said:

Let's step back and ask the more important question - did some python fanatic pee in your cheerios this morning? Why are you so desperately looking to argue some point about a c++ to python comparison?

Absolutely not, I'm just amused by people repeating one after another phrases like, more productive, more readable, more maintainable, without even giving it a few seconds to think what they really say.

View Postmodi123_1, on 21 January 2016 - 10:42 AM, said:

I'll restate my position a little more clearly - who frigg'n cares?
Spoiler

The point of my post is that I'm trying to understand the "hype" python gets. Python is neither more productive, more readable nor more maintainable, which are the main "selling" points of it.

View Postjon.kiparsky, on 21 January 2016 - 10:43 AM, said:

Oh, well. Good thing there's plenty of places hiring C++ programmers, and there's plenty of places hiring python programmers, so we're both pretty well taken care of.

Hi, it is really not about places hiring these or those programmers, it is about the attitude that somehow people believe that if you use python you will work faster and more productive, which is not true. That's all there is about.
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#15 no2pencil  Icon User is offline

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Re: Python really works on my tits!

Posted 21 January 2016 - 10:49 AM

View PostsmallB, on 21 January 2016 - 12:45 PM, said:

View Postmodi123_1, on 21 January 2016 - 10:40 AM, said:

Let's step back and ask the more important question - did some python fanatic pee in your cheerios this morning? Why are you so desperately looking to argue some point about a c++ to python comparison?

Absolutely not, I'm just amused by people repeating one after another phrases like, more productive, more readable, more maintainable, without even giving it a few seconds to think what they really say.

All of those positive items are relative. So to them it very well maybe more productive, readable, & maintainable. Just because you can't get there, doesn't mean that they are making it up. & I don't even use it. But I'll never go that route of the argument. Even in my die M$ die! days, if someone truly preferred Windows, I can't change that. I can point out everything that I prefer *nix for, until I'm blue in the face. But if deep down someone's relative views of best are still unchanged, that's just the way it goes. & if the industry does in-deed move that way, I have a decision to make. Arguing semantics will not stop progression, & I eventually came to grips with that. & now look, Ubuntu is the toilet of Linux & welcomes Windows users with open arms. All of that arguing to wind up right back where I started at. I just don't have the energy anymore.
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