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#1 Jemcrystal  Icon User is offline

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Does This Exist? Beginner Applications

Posted 07 April 2016 - 08:17 AM

I am trying to learn java. I keep watching one Youtube tutorial after another that say the same exact things. This is an int. This is a float. Java is object orientated. This is a string. This is how to install Eclipse.

I finished most of these.

But not ONCE has anyone asked me to write a program with what they've taught me. I'm kinda mad about it.

What I want to know is if anyone out there in the world has noticed this teaching discrepancy besides me? And done something about it?

Shouldn't there be exercises out there somewhere that teach you how to, I don't know, maybe make a simple calculator or calender or how to open a .png image inside a jframe. The closest I came to this is Youtube vidoes showing how to make a simple game like Snake or Asteroids.

I am sorry but I cannot learn anything via memorization only. I really need to apply it in a practical manner or it just does not stick in the brain. What would be nice is a gigantic list full of simple programs to make. I thought I found something like it on IMB's site but all the information was outdated leading to poor links or programs that no longer worked in the way the tutorials described.

So do Beginner Applications exist for new java programmers to create as learning tools? And omg where because I have been searching and searching.

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#2 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: Does This Exist? Beginner Applications

Posted 07 April 2016 - 08:23 AM

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But not ONCE has anyone asked me to write a program with what they've taught me.

Why not just... you know.. do one? Look at the project lists:
Project Ideas
Martyr2 Mega Project List

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What I want to know is if anyone out there in the world has noticed this teaching discrepancy besides me

That's the nature of being self taught is having the self discipline to apply what you have learned.
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#3 Ryano121  Icon User is offline

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Re: Does This Exist? Beginner Applications

Posted 07 April 2016 - 08:26 AM

You're learning from YouTube - don't expect too much. The big problem with YouTube is that most of the time you don't know who you're learning from. In many cases the person creating the video doesn't know that much more about the topic than you do - and they certainly have limited/no experience in efficiently teaching it.

That's why many programmers prefer learning from books (or at least from more reputable sources) as they have thought a lot more about and have a lot more experience in this kind of thing.

This post has been edited by Ryano121: 07 April 2016 - 08:28 AM

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#4 MentalFloss  Icon User is offline

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Re: Does This Exist? Beginner Applications

Posted 07 April 2016 - 08:34 AM

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Shouldn't there be exercises out there somewhere that teach you how to, I don't know, maybe make a simple calculator or calender or how to open a .png image inside a jframe. The closest I came to this is Youtube vidoes showing how to make a simple game like Snake or Asteroids.


None of those are simple at your level. You can make use of library calls to do these things, but you aren't going to learn the fundamentals of programming at all.

I'll give you a starter project. You might think it's boring, but it will make use of some concepts you need to learn.

Create a program that continually asks the user what the temperature outside is in Fahrenheit. It then tells the user what that temperature is in Celsius and Kelvin. It also tells the user based on temperature: If less than 32 degrees, tell them to stay inside. If between 32 and 65, tell them to wear a jacket. If between 65 and 85, tell them to wear a sweater. If between 85 and 95, tell them it's a nice day. If between 95 and 105, tell them to drink plenty of water. If greater than 105, tell them to stay inside. When the user is done entering temperatures, report the average temperature of all temperatures provided.

This is all console. It requires while loop, if-else statements, methods, user input, output, some variables to track temperature, and research on how to convert various temperatures (and apply it in code).

So, you have your hands full now. Go make it happen.

This post has been edited by MentalFloss: 07 April 2016 - 08:34 AM

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#5 Jemcrystal  Icon User is offline

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Re: Does This Exist? Beginner Applications

Posted 08 April 2016 - 11:28 AM

Thanks for trying to help but that is not what I am after. I do not need a negative you should not learn from Youtube. I do not need someone to tell me to buy a book. I do not need a project suggestion list.

I want to see someone write out a program in code that is simple so I can emulate it.

If I am only learning beginner concepts I am not going to come up with how to on my own. I need to see someone else DO IT in front of me.

You all are trying to make learning code harder than what it needs to be. Forcing yourselves to come up with answers. No wonder people give up and go away frustrated leaving a few king of the hill geeks in charge. For all free help out there coding is still a greedy guarded secret.

If I was a car mechanic you would not expect me to learn to work on engines by "coming up with the solution myself." I would watch an older mechanic work on cars as he told me this is the alternator and here is how we lift the case and replace the belt AND HE WOULD SHOW ME not say, "Well, figure out how to pull that alternator out yourself and prove you're a man." But that is how you people treat coding.
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#6 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: Does This Exist? Beginner Applications

Posted 08 April 2016 - 11:43 AM

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I want to see someone write out a program in code that is simple so I can emulate it.

I guess those are thought of as 'tutorials'. We have a few above that folk peruse.

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If I am only learning beginner concepts I am not going to come up with how to on my own. I need to see someone else DO IT in front of me.

That's literally what exercises in a book build you up to doing.

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Forcing yourselves to come up with answers.

... but that's the point of being a program.. to create.

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For all free help out there coding is still a greedy guarded secret.

That is absolutely not true. This site alone is a counter example.

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If I was a car mechanic you would not expect me to learn to work on engines by "coming up with the solution myself
.
No, but I would expect folks to work through changing a tire, a battery, oil, etc. Aka - doing exercises in a book.

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For all free help out there coding is still a greedy guarded secret.

I'm not certain what bitter pill you swallowed, but that certainly isn't the case. Between, as you pointed out, online videos, MOOCs, books, a never ending plethora of tutorials, sites, etc learning programming has been made substantially more accessible in the last five years than in the last twenty. Is this an issue on not augmenting how you learn or apply concepts?

---
This is less a java question and more a general 'how do I learn' question. Moving to Software Dev.
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#7 astonecipher  Icon User is offline

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Re: Does This Exist? Beginner Applications

Posted 08 April 2016 - 12:07 PM

Books build exercises at the end of the chapters covering what was gone over. The next chapter, builds on the last, with more exercises. Head First Java (version 2) would get you started, if that is what you are after. Watching someone else code, is not going to teach you much, and this is coming from someone that is self-taught.
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#8 Locke  Icon User is offline

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Re: Does This Exist? Beginner Applications

Posted 08 April 2016 - 12:16 PM

View PostJemcrystal, on 07 April 2016 - 10:17 AM, said:

I am sorry but I cannot learn anything via memorization only. I really need to apply it in a practical manner or it just does not stick in the brain. What would be nice is a gigantic list full of simple programs to make.


View PostJemcrystal, on 08 April 2016 - 01:28 PM, said:

Thanks for trying to help but that is not what I am after. I do not need a negative you should not learn from Youtube. I do not need someone to tell me to buy a book. I do not need a project suggestion list.


Perhaps try not to contradict yourself when you ask for what you want, then?

View PostJemcrystal, on 08 April 2016 - 01:28 PM, said:

If I am only learning beginner concepts I am not going to come up with how to on my own. I need to see someone else DO IT in front of me.

You all are trying to make learning code harder than what it needs to be. Forcing yourselves to come up with answers. No wonder people give up and go away frustrated leaving a few king of the hill geeks in charge. For all free help out there coding is still a greedy guarded secret.


We are not trying to make it that way. People perceive it that way. I often tell people it's much easier to do my job than people give me credit for. I like to use the analogy of "if you can write a cooking recipe effectively, you can write a computer program".

Everyone learns differently. You've made it somewhat clear that my way of learning programming clearly wouldn't work for you. I just dove in and got my hands dirty. Are we supposed to magically know exactly how to make you the greatest programmer alive? I hardly think that's fair.

Anyway, something else to consider is how you're searching for these materials. I used google for 30 seconds and came across a video of someone writing code. Here it is. I simply googled "java programming tutorial youtube". That one at the very least seems to take you through basic conditionals and class fields. Should at least get you started.

This post has been edited by Locke: 08 April 2016 - 12:16 PM

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#9 Bench  Icon User is offline

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Re: Does This Exist? Beginner Applications

Posted 10 April 2016 - 01:18 AM

I keep throwing Codecademy around, but the interactive tutorials for Java will get you writing (simple) programs.

Java Link: https://www.codecade...earn/learn-java


However, when it comes to a lot of free online tutorials and videos, you usually "get what you pay for", and if you value your time, books such as the one astonecipher mentioned have a very high signal-to-noise ratio compared to Google.


View PostJemcrystal, on 08 April 2016 - 07:28 PM, said:

I want to see someone write out a program in code that is simple so I can emulate it.
You can find loads of downloadable examples of complete open-source programs, and even huge applications if you want to see some working code. I doubt you will find complete videos or walkthroughs of people writing those complete programs while explaining every single line of code, because that kind of thing is better explained in smaller, simpler tutorials with small/simple examples.

Somebody could write a simple/basic "Snake" game in around 200 lines of code in quite a few languages; however the amount of time it would take to explain all of the thought processes and language features to a complete novice whose only experience is printing "Hello world" is another matter.

Most of the things it would need to explain are things which are explained in books, courses and basic tutorials, and a big part of writing the program would be the in-between iterative steps/mistakes between starting out from an empty main() before having something finished. Overall, it would probably take just as long, or longer to learn that way than simply going through all the basic tutorials and working through the easy examples.

View PostJemcrystal, on 08 April 2016 - 07:28 PM, said:

If I am only learning beginner concepts I am not going to come up with how to on my own. I need to see someone else DO IT in front of me.
If you haven't written any code yet, have you considered that you're trying to run before you can walk?

The reason so many books and tutorials start out with banal and contrived examples to introduce things like user input, for, if, functions, lists, variables, etc; it's because these are part of your basic toolkit - the foundations upon which everything else is built. Learning a programming language has parallels with learning to speak a foreign language; your goal may be to hold a complete conversation, but you need to start out with basic phrases and grammar before you can either speak or understand the language fluently, or even understand how a fluent speaker thinks in their language.

Programming languages are structurally and syntactically simpler than natural languages, but you still need to understand the syntax, the keywords, the standard libraries, and you still need to understand how your compiler "thinks", including the messages it throws back at you, before you can have a "conversation" with the compiler.


View PostJemcrystal, on 08 April 2016 - 07:28 PM, said:

If I was a car mechanic you would not expect me to learn to work on engines by "coming up with the solution myself." I would watch an older mechanic work on cars as he told me this is the alternator and here is how we lift the case and replace the belt AND HE WOULD SHOW ME not say, "Well, figure out how to pull that alternator out yourself and prove you're a man." But that is how you people treat coding.
The mechanic would need to teach you how to use the basic tools first; they're not going to have you pull out the alternator before you know how to use the wrench. It doesn't really take that long to familiarise yourself with the basic tools, or to work through the kinds of short/simple contrived examples you find in tutorials - but you need to start with those first. If you were to spend 10-15 hours per week at your compiler/IDE working through books or tutorials using basic examples, then you should have a fairly firm grasp on programming basics within a few weeks.

This post has been edited by Bench: 10 April 2016 - 04:01 AM

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#10 PreciousReed  Icon User is offline

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Re: Does This Exist? Beginner Applications

Posted 20 April 2016 - 12:04 PM

You can think of making your own application based on your own requirements by applying what you learn from tutorials.
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