is degree worth to get it?

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#1 rozkurwiator  Icon User is offline

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is degree worth to get it?

Posted 22 May 2016 - 04:01 AM

Are you developers with or without degree. does employer require degree? How in the future do you think it will be the standard(programmers with degree?) or without?
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#2 Atli  Icon User is offline

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Re: is degree worth to get it?

Posted 22 May 2016 - 04:33 AM

Depends on the employer. Depends on how skilled you are. Depends on a lot of things.

If you're looking for a quick, simple answer to whether you should get a degree... it doesn't exist.
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#3 PennyBoki  Icon User is offline

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Re: is degree worth to get it?

Posted 22 May 2016 - 05:00 AM

For me personally it was worth getting one. Not every employer requires degree. Many employers want to get the job done so that they get the money. I think, in future the number people without a degree will be greater than those with a degree.

But one thing is certain, getting degrees, certifications, badges, numbers, you named it.. is less important than getting knowledge.
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#4 andrewsw  Icon User is offline

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Re: is degree worth to get it?

Posted 22 May 2016 - 07:58 AM

View PostPennyBoki, on 22 May 2016 - 12:00 PM, said:

I think, in future the number people without a degree will be greater than those with a degree.

I would have thought it the other way round, particularly as I believe the number of people with degrees has increased dramatically in the last 20 years. Correction: in the last 50 years, see following post.
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#5 andrewsw  Icon User is offline

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Re: is degree worth to get it?

Posted 22 May 2016 - 08:03 AM

Here is a statement from wikipedia concerning the US:

Quote

In 2005, the proportion of the population having finished high school and the percentage of those having earned bachelor's degrees remained at an all-time high, while the growth in both categories has slowed down over the past two decades. The vast majority of the population, 85.2%, had finished high school and nearly a quarter, 22%, had earned a bachelor's degree. The percentage of both college and high school graduates has continued to increase since 2000.[2]

Since 1983 the percentage of people graduating from high school has increased from 85% to 88%. The greatest increases in educational attainment were documented in the 1950s, 60s and 70s. In the 1950s and much of the 1960s high school graduates constituted about 50% of those considered adults (25 and above). For young adults aged between 25 and 29, the percentage of high school graduates was roughly 50% in 1950 versus 90% today

(my emphasis)

The rate of growth has slowed, but the statistics are still dramatic.
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#6 no2pencil  Icon User is offline

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Re: is degree worth to get it?

Posted 22 May 2016 - 08:11 AM

omg, PennyBoki!

@rozkurwiator as this question has been answered a thousand times before :

it comes down to factors
What it's like in your area is different than others
What it's like in your time is different than others
What is your experience level?
Are you the best candidate for the job?
Does the company you are applying to have a requirement for a degree

This answer to those items are the answer to your question. Often a degree is just a cma for the business.
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#7 snoopy11  Icon User is offline

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Re: is degree worth to get it?

Posted 22 May 2016 - 08:12 AM

In the UK I think its more prevalent that degree's are required

although I know people in the Asian community who have no qualifications who end up doing unit tests etc.

In the US the demand for programmers is high and when supply outstrips demand, wages rise and qualification barriers disappear.
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#8 andrewsw  Icon User is offline

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Re: is degree worth to get it?

Posted 22 May 2016 - 08:22 AM

I believe the demand for programmers in the UK is also high ;)

One might cynically suggest that the requirement for a degree is tacked on simply to reduce the number of applicants to a manageable level :whistling:, particularly as there are now many categories of jobs that stipulate a degree when this wasn't formerly a requirement.
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#9 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is offline

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Re: is degree worth to get it?

Posted 22 May 2016 - 08:23 AM

*
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There are two parts of the "is a degree worth it" question, and I'm going to separate them out here even though they do inter-relate strongly.
First, and this is the question you seem most interested in, we might be considering "does a degree make it easier to get work as a programmer?"

The answer to this is generally going to be "yes", but the degree to which is is important depends largely on what position you're applying for and the views of the hiring party. For a junior programmer starting out, a degree is a hard-to-fake proof of work. It indicates a certain baseline competency, which can be useful if you don't have experience in the field. Some employers will rely strongly on this signal, others less so. For a mid-level or senior-level developer, the resume is the thing that matters. For an upper-level position, assuming you have some experience to show, the degree is usually a nice-to-have, but the experience is what's going to be decisive. Above this, when you get into higher-level roles (director, CTO, architect) I imagine the degree starts to become important again, and people will even start looking for advanced degrees. However, I have no experience in that area, so it's just a hunch, and there are surely ways into these roles that don't require degrees. (for example, if you get started as the first programmer at some startup your role is likely to inflate as the startup does - but of course you have to be careful about committing your future to a company employing an under-qualified CTO)

So if you're just concerned about getting hired, it's possible to find work and build up work history by getting your foot in the door and working your way up. However, a degree can make it easier to get the jobs and shorten your path of ascent. We must also point out that this is just one factor of many, and inner characteristics like motivation, drive, "grit", combined with ordinary personality traits like charm and humor, will play a big role and might even overwhelm the degree itself. In other words, yes, it can make a difference, but it's not going to be decisive.

The second question, which you don't seem to be asking, is "is a degree necessary for a programmer to do their work?". The obvious first cut answer is "no". I'm a programmer without a degree, and there are many others. However, if we ask "does a programmer need to understand computer science to be a programmer?", then the answer becomes a resounding "Yes", and you will have to demonstrate a deep understanding of the most important concepts in CS in order to work on any team that's worth working on. If you get the job without demonstrating a deep understanding of algorithmic scaling, the job probably wasn't worth getting.

To me, this suggests that anyone who is going to succeed in programming is the sort of person who could get a degree in CS and acquires most or all or a superset of that information in some way, and it's up to that person to decide how they're going to go about it.
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#10 Atli  Icon User is offline

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Re: is degree worth to get it?

Posted 22 May 2016 - 08:24 AM

I've seen a lot more job listings "requiring" degrees than I used to, at least in my area. But in the end I don't think they'd actually dismiss a qualified candidate, simply because of a lack of formal education. - It might make it trickier to get an interview, and might hurt your chances if you are fighting for a position with other experienced people, who also happen to have degrees.

But I still believe that experience and actual skill trump formal education in most situations.

Another factor, also, is that a lack of degree might hurt you when negotiating wages. But then, education isn't exactly cheap.
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#11 snoopy11  Icon User is offline

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Re: is degree worth to get it?

Posted 22 May 2016 - 08:38 AM

True education is thousands of pounds....

But I still believe it to be worth it!
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#12 NeoTifa  Icon User is offline

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Re: is degree worth to get it?

Posted 22 May 2016 - 09:05 AM

It makes it 10000000x easier to get your foot in the door unless you have connections. Idk how I even got an interview without one at my job, but I showed up, rocked it, and they told me I was better qualified than pretty much 85% of the candidates even with degrees based on skill and knowledge alone. Skill > degree, unless you know somebody.
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#13 ArtificialSoldier  Icon User is offline

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Re: is degree worth to get it?

Posted 23 May 2016 - 10:21 AM

If I was interviewing someone who was unable to show a formal education in computer science, then they better have a seriously impressive portfolio of work to show an understanding of what we need them for. A degree will help provide proof that they know that stuff, but even so I met plenty of people during my time in college to know that a degree doesn't mean you know the material. If a person has neither a degree nor a portfolio then I'm not going to spend time trying to bring them on board, they need one or the other. A degree is "worth" a fairly impressive portfolio of work in terms of me being willing to give them a shot.
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#14 Nitewalkr  Icon User is offline

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Re: is degree worth to get it?

Posted 24 May 2016 - 06:11 AM

View Postrozkurwiator, on 22 May 2016 - 04:01 AM, said:

Are you developers with or without degree. does employer require degree? How in the future do you think it will be the standard(programmers with degree?) or without?


It really depends on what company are you applying for and their set of requirements. If you are determined to get in to one company and their requirement is Masters Degree, than you will need it.

Besides that, you dont really need em. There are many companies including the sites that offer remote positions do not require a degree.

Quote

If I was interviewing someone who was unable to show a formal education in computer science, then they better have a seriously impressive portfolio of work to show an understanding of what we need them for. A degree will help provide proof that they know that stuff, but even so I met plenty of people during my time in college to know that a degree doesn't mean you know the material. If a person has neither a degree nor a portfolio then I'm not going to spend time trying to bring them on board, they need one or the other. A degree is "worth" a fairly impressive portfolio of work in terms of me being willing to give them a shot.


Could you please give few examples of what would you be looking for for a "solid" portfolio.

From my understanding, one would be good enough if they have an application that sort of tells what his workflow ethics.

This post has been edited by Nitewalkr: 24 May 2016 - 06:17 AM

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#15 astonecipher  Icon User is offline

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Re: is degree worth to get it?

Posted 24 May 2016 - 06:23 AM

View PostArtificialSoldier, on 23 May 2016 - 12:21 PM, said:

A degree will help provide proof that they know that stuff, but even so I met plenty of people during my time in college to know that a degree doesn't mean you know the material.


I have known many degree holders that didn't know anything, likewise I have known some that knew the theories, but couldn't implement printing a string.

I have also worked with a few that were damn good. Degrees in themselves are worthless to me. I want to see implementation. I could give a shit of you know the theory of sorting or even if you can write your own algorithms on sorting. Can you do what you are being looked at for? Portfolios can provide that, a degree doesn't mean anything other than you paid money for a piece of paper.
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