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#1 HugeLag  Icon User is offline

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C Sharp and Life.

Posted 04 December 2016 - 06:39 PM

This thread is not really anything to do with coding, but more of a personal thing I want to share and get some advice on. Please move this thread or delete it if I am in the wrong place.

So ever since I started out with programming I was really and highly motivated to learn how to code, and maybe one day become a professional programmer for a big tech company. I have slowly sucked myself into an emotional and depressed state of mind feeling I am not cut out for programming. I have spent the last 1 month and a half trying to make a game in console command (visual studio) and feel like I cant even finish that because I am just finding it so difficult to learn how to program and understand. I recently came to this thread as a last resort.

I have been told before that the approach I have taken in order to learn how to code is quite a shotgun approach, but in the last month watched I about 30+ tutorial videos on YouTube, and I am just not getting it even with practice, I feel like I will never be able to keep up with remembering all the different coding in C sharp. Is this the time to just give it up and pursue something else in field of computer science like networks?

Would a computer networks degree for example consist of a lot of coding work? Not that I am currently doing a degree but I was just thinking about maybe starting a course at university, that is why I tried to self teach myself C sharp prior to actually going to Uni, because I didnt want to be in a situation where I started the course and hated programming and just cant learn like I am ranting.

Nevertheless, I hope im not in the wrong place of posting if I am please just move this thread or delete it, I dont want to sound depressing to other people who are actually trying :)

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Replies To: C Sharp and Life.

#2 Skydiver  Icon User is offline

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Re: C Sharp and Life.

Posted 04 December 2016 - 07:17 PM

Moving to student corner...

Perhaps you are telling yourself you are a video learner, but you are not actually one. Some people learn from books better. Others learn better from one-on-one mentorship. Others thrive in groups. Yet others do better reading other people's code rather than designing on their own.

The other part of it maybe attempting to drink from the fire hydrant that is C#. There are so many things to learn. Unless you have a very good guide, or are very disciplined, it is very easy to lose your way. IMHO this is where a book and/or teacher excels.
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#3 baavgai  Icon User is offline

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Re: C Sharp and Life.

Posted 05 December 2016 - 06:52 AM

You can't "learn" faster. My guess is you have a thing you want to do and want do to that thing now, Now, NOW. Take a deep breath, step back, relax.

First, programming is hard. Anyone who tells you otherwise is selling you something. Even if you're used to being the smartest guy in the room and picking things up easily; programming is not going to be one of those things.

Second, don't get discouraged. While you can't learn to program in 21 days ( or whatever; remember, selling you something ) you can certainly learn how to do it. It just takes, you're not going to like this, time and patience and practice. Programming is lots of simple, little, things that looked at as a whole can appear huge and complex and scary. Programming is, actually, huge and complex; the programmer learns to break it down into lots of small and simple.

Start simple. And I mean stupid simple. Like, I'm too damn smart to be doing anything this simple, simple. Because just looking at the simple stuff and seeing it makes sense is not the same as knowing it cold and accessing that information with nothing more than your brain.

A programming language might not be that hard. Even the first half of a beginners' book shouldn't be too challenging; variables and loops and functions, oh my. However, it's not the programming language you're trying to learn; it's programming. Programming requires you to think a certain way. To organize your thoughts into tidy, logical, blocks. To use tidy logical block to solve problems and make bigger blocks. You can't rush that.

You are learning a new way to think. Go easy on yourself. The trait that any programmer must cultivate is a high tolerance for frustration. Ask any programmer, regardless of level of experience, and they will tell you frustration comes with the territory. However, when you finally get the bloody thing to work, the frustration seems less oppressive than it once did.
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#4 astonecipher  Icon User is offline

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Re: C Sharp and Life.

Posted 05 December 2016 - 07:51 AM

You may just need time for it to 'Click'. When I started, the logic of the whole mess thoroughly confused the shit out of me. One day, it was just, 'Oh that's what it does!' eureka type moments.

Take a break, come back to it later. That break may be a day or a month, but your mind needs to see how it is functioning to really get it to work for you. Mind you this is only if you are learning on your own.
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#5 Skydiver  Icon User is offline

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Re: C Sharp and Life.

Posted 05 December 2016 - 08:49 AM

View Postbaavgai, on 05 December 2016 - 08:52 AM, said:

The trait that any programmer must cultivate is a high tolerance for frustration. Ask any programmer, regardless of level of experience, and they will tell you frustration comes with the territory. However, when you finally get the bloody thing to work, the frustration seems less oppressive than it once did.


A coworker once was trying to explain to his date what he does every day at work. He described it as "spending most of the day shouting at the computer because it won't do what he wants it to do".
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#6 modi123_1  Icon User is offline

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Re: C Sharp and Life.

Posted 05 December 2016 - 08:51 AM

I find "yak shaving" to be more titillating of a response.

Spoiler

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#7 baavgai  Icon User is offline

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Re: C Sharp and Life.

Posted 05 December 2016 - 11:28 AM

View PostSkydiver, on 05 December 2016 - 10:49 AM, said:

A coworker once was trying to explain to his date what he does every day at work. He described it as "spending most of the day shouting at the computer because it won't do what he wants it to do".


Heh, that seems like unhealthy projection. Programmers create their own problems entirely. However, at some level, you're basically trying to explain a task to an idiot savant. The savant will do exactly what you tell it to, no more, no less, and therein is the problem.

Tech writers have a similar problem, though their idiots are much more creative. When I was in grade school we were given the assignment to write instructions to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. The teacher then had great fun reading our instructions and doing exactly as told. If the end result was actually a sandwich, you got to eat it. I'm not sure anyone got a sandwich. Excellent lesson, though.
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#8 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is offline

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Re: C Sharp and Life.

Posted 05 December 2016 - 03:22 PM

Heh. One of my favorite pieces of entertainment is a long-running panel show on BBC Radio 4 called "I'm sorry, I haven't a clue". Back in the old days, they had an episode which featured a game where one of the panelists had to instruct the others in doing something simple - tie a shoelace, make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, that sort of thing. Since it was radio, you got to hear the instructions and the audience response, but you had to create your own pictures of what was happening - it was actually quite hilarious. Anyway, one time the task was to tie a tie, it was amazing - Willie Rushton just nailed the instructions for this task. You could actually see the other panelists doing exactly what he said, and ending up with a perfect Windsor knot. I hadn't connected that to tech writing before, but of course it's a great example of good technical writing, done exactly right.

Anyway, to the topic at hand: the advice to start small is exactly right. Consider that you're not just learning a programming language, you're also learning how to write programs, which is a subtle and mystifying skill, and you're also learning how to learn a programming language, which is a skill in itself. Add to this that your teacher (that is, you) has never done this before. No wonder it's hard!

I would consider taking an intro programming course - your local community college or state college probably has a good first-year course that you can either take for credit or audit for free if you ask the instructor nicely. Taking it for credit might be worth the investment, since it'll mean that you'll get your assignments graded and first-class attention from the prof. It'll also mean you have skin in the game, which will help with your motivation.

The course might not be taught in C# - Java is a popular first language, and python is gaining popularity as well. Don't worry about that. Once you understand the basics, getting a second language under your belt is a lot easier. Once you've done the intro course, you might want to stick around for a course in data structures and algorithms. This is core class that will give you a lot of insights into what programming really involves, and it'll also require you to write a lot of code, which will be a big help in cementing what you've learned. Having these two courses under your belt will be a big boost, and from there you can decide what you want to do next - you might find that you want to pursue a formal program in CS at that point, or you have enough to go off and work on your own for a while.
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#9 Skydiver  Icon User is offline

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Re: C Sharp and Life.

Posted 05 December 2016 - 07:46 PM

And even if you decide not to pursue CS or networking, the set of skills you picked up from these core classes are also sought after by companies seeking to fill in business analyst, testing, build build engineer positions. It is the resulting skill of analysis, breaking down the problem into smaller problems, and ability to create step by step instructions that pays dividends long term.
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#10 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is offline

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Re: C Sharp and Life.

Posted 05 December 2016 - 08:10 PM

The man speaks truth.
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