WinForms vs. WPF (again)

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32 Replies - 9271 Views - Last Post: 10 April 2017 - 03:36 PM

#16 hexagod  Icon User is offline

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Re: WinForms vs. WPF (again)

Posted 24 February 2017 - 05:41 PM

Well you're probably way better at programming, more intelligent, etc... I don't have a lot of time and noone is teaching me... so I have to be as efficient as possible and when I have to google compiler glitches every hour it really puts a damper on my workflow as a n00b.

I'll take another pass at it monday I guess.
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#17 tlhIn`toq  Icon User is offline

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Re: WinForms vs. WPF (again)

Posted 25 February 2017 - 06:22 AM

> Well you're probably way better at programming, more intelligent, etc...
Probably not. I just started before you.

> I don't have a lot of time and noone is teaching me...
Same as me. Job. Family. No college. Self taught. Sounds like most of the people that I know that are actually good at their jobs. People that care about a topic so much that they spend their free time learning it are the motivated people. The students that had 4 years of someone teaching them in class have consistently had the least to offer. I think its because they learn from 10 year old text books and through a system that makes more money if they slow down the learning and spread it across as many course-credits as they can.

The guys that self-learn have holes in their education: Absolutely. And I'm one of them. There are obscure patterns and techniques that I don't know that could be beneficial here and there. But they learn what is used today, for today's world, looking at today's help-wanted ads and the skillsets that employers are wanting. I that means they later have to concentrate on delegates, or take a back-step to learn about how to programmatically change a BIOS setting because of a specific need - that's a 1 in 5,000 need.

If coding is what you love, and you would do it for free if there was some other income stream taking care of your household... Then I have no doubt you'll apply yourself. I'm not any smarter. I just started about 2 decades ahead of you is all.
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#18 hexagod  Icon User is offline

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Re: WinForms vs. WPF (again)

Posted 27 February 2017 - 04:08 PM

Makes sense. I'll give it a shot next time. So did you say that Xamarin is replacing WPF? What's the best place to reset my path towards?
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#19 tlhIn`toq  Icon User is offline

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Re: WinForms vs. WPF (again)

Posted 27 February 2017 - 04:37 PM

View Posthexagod, on 27 February 2017 - 05:08 PM, said:

So did you say that Xamarin is replacing WPF?


I think I said something to the effect of "Think of Xamarin as next-generation XAML."

Xamarin was its own company, dedicated to making an eco-system based on XAML and .NET; for the purpose of having a single code base that can run on Win, iOS, and other platforms. Last June (2016) Microsoft bought the company.

At this time (Feb 2017) WPF and Xamarin are peers - Separate but equal. Each having advantages and disadvantages.

WPF is more mature and a bit more feature-rich. Xamarin for example has no equivilent to a ViewBox, and some other controls.
Xamarin on the other hand let's me have one code base that runs on everything from a Windows desktop to an Apple Watch, and all the phones and tablets in between. For that kind of power I'm happy to forgo a couple missing features until they get written by the Xamarin team.

> What direction should I go, what should I learn?

That question is asked here 20 times a week. The answer is always the same when you boil it down: Learn what is required to do the job that you are aiming at.

If you work for a company that is doing WPF and has no interest in doing Xamarin, it does you no good to learn Xamarin.

If you want to make mobile apps that you would like to sell as a side-line - Xamarin really hits the target since you only have to do about 10% more work to have it sellable on 3 market places.

The core of both is still the same: They are both XAML/C#/MVVM. The core concepts such as MVVM design pattern with data binding between your view and your ViewModel is exactly the same. WPF has a [IL]StackPanel[/il], Xamarin has a StackLayout. It keeps down 'Ambiguous reference between ... and ...' problems.

My personal opinion... If you have no compelling reason to go either way... Xamarin has a very bright future with a lot fewer developers that are certified. That makes the job market look rather rosey. 80% of what you learn for Xamarin will apply to WPF since its all the same concepts. So to me it seems like Xamarin is a good way to go and if you have to pick up WPF for a job requirement it shouldn't take more than a week-month to learn the differential between the two.
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#20 Ratatoskr  Icon User is offline

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Re: WinForms vs. WPF (again)

Posted 14 March 2017 - 02:03 PM

View PostThomas1965, on 21 February 2017 - 06:15 AM, said:

That WinForms is dead is just your personal opinion, please don't try to sell it as an absolute truth or religious dogma.
WinForms are the easiest and fastest to learn for hobby programmers.
Anyway his problem has nothing to do with WinForms or WPF. It's rather about classes and properties.


It's faster and easier for hobbyists, but that doesn't mean it's more viable in the market. I think one issue you have, which is one I once had, is that WinForms is VERY beginner friendly. So, I do slightly disagree with the constant ridicule of people using WinForms in that degree. I think WinForms is cool for someone intimidated by code and just trying to get their feet wet, but it is not something you should try to become an expert in, or use as an excuse to not pursue more modern technologies.

I was once reluctant to switch from WinForms. After stomaching the learning curve with WPF, it becomes clear why it is and will become more desirable than legacies like WinForm. This is coming from a hobbyist.

I think mixing in a hobbyist perspective with the actual market perspective is a flawed one.
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#21 Curtis Rutland  Icon User is offline

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Re: WinForms vs. WPF (again)

Posted 14 March 2017 - 02:33 PM

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It's faster and easier for hobbyists


I still disagree with this premise in the first place. What actually makes WinForms easier or faster for a hobbyist?

You can drag and drop elements the same way.

You can still completely ignore MVVM and just do WinForms-style "set control's value in codebehind".

I just don't know what specifically is easier.
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#22 astonecipher  Icon User is offline

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Re: WinForms vs. WPF (again)

Posted 14 March 2017 - 04:15 PM

In that case, why not learn VB6?

WinForms is dead in the professional world to all but legacy applications that are being slowly migrated. They are dead, because there are better ways to do things. Yes, you can easily learn WinForms. You can also easily learn to make things incorrectly, with tightly coupled bindings and no way to grow your homebrewed masterpiece. Granted for most hobbiest it is irrelevant, but a lot of those hobbyist grow into the idea of, "Oh you need a widget? I can program that for you, no problem." And now you are introducing bad things to the populace because you choose to not grow skills to meet anything relevant.
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#23 maceysoftware  Icon User is offline

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Re: WinForms vs. WPF (again)

Posted 15 March 2017 - 03:49 AM

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WinForms is dead in the professional world to all but legacy applications that are being slowly migrated.


Not for all of us sadly.

For example where I work we are still migrating a VB6 application to .Net WinForms, because the "learning curve to WPF is to hard"

However I am in agreement with the rest of the statement and attempting to find time to more ahead with learning Xamarin, I will admit I haven't spent as much time on it as I would like. At the same time there isn't the same drive to move forward to WPF and/Xamarin where I currently live, compared to what it most be like where you guys live.

I have looked at the job boards, a lot of the jobs around are either for web or for WinForms that is currently looking to move to newer technologies (but they never say what, when you do ask it is normally Web).

I don't get on with Web Development, its not that I can't do it, its that I just don't enjoy it, I find that i have to force myself to sit down to do Web Development. I have given WPF and Xamarin both a go and enjoy developing in both of them so that's the way I want to move my skill sets forward in.

Currently my development plan is:

  • Cross train over to C# (pretty much there, its just getting use to do things I know instinctively in VB in C# like Lambda syntax)
  • Continue to mess about with just the XAML aspect of the development, Like forgetting about the development side, and just focusing about getting the results out of XAML to begin with.
  • Look into MVVM properly and actually start doing examples (I have been following a few tutorials however I haven't done my own example yet.

This post has been edited by maceysoftware: 15 March 2017 - 05:36 AM

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#24 Curtis Rutland  Icon User is offline

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Re: WinForms vs. WPF (again)

Posted 15 March 2017 - 06:48 AM

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I don't get on with Web Development, its not that I can't do it, its that I just don't enjoy it, I find that i have to force myself to sit down to do Web Development.


See, that's interesting, because I'm the opposite. I haven't bothered to check out Xamarin because I'm pretty much web-focused these days. If I really needed to write a desktop application, I'd be seriously considering Electron (a SPA web app desktop container, it's what Visual Studio Code is written in) before I'd do a complex WPF application.

Different strokes. But it's a great time to be doing web; ASP.NET Core is pretty sweet, and Angular 2 + Typescript is also pretty sweet.
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#25 maceysoftware  Icon User is offline

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Re: WinForms vs. WPF (again)

Posted 15 March 2017 - 06:53 AM

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See, that's interesting, because I'm the opposite.


I think a lot of people are the opposite.

It's weird I get involved now and again and start to learn bits and pieces but I just never enjoy it.
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#26 modi123_1  Icon User is online

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Re: WinForms vs. WPF (again)

Posted 15 March 2017 - 06:56 AM

One of my titles includes 'web dev' and I am not a fan of it and that, usually, is only about 10% of my work load.

Web development peaked with geocities. :)
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#27 tlhIn`toq  Icon User is offline

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Re: WinForms vs. WPF (again)

Posted 15 March 2017 - 10:10 AM

View Postmaceysoftware, on 15 March 2017 - 07:53 AM, said:

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See, that's interesting, because I'm the opposite.


I think a lot of people are the opposite.


1 - I am the opposite of me.
2 - See statement 1
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#28 Curtis Rutland  Icon User is offline

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Re: WinForms vs. WPF (again)

Posted 15 March 2017 - 01:56 PM

View PosttlhIn`toq, on 15 March 2017 - 12:10 PM, said:

View Postmaceysoftware, on 15 March 2017 - 07:53 AM, said:

Quote

See, that's interesting, because I'm the opposite.


I think a lot of people are the opposite.


1 - I am the opposite of me.
2 - See statement 1


StackOverflowException
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#29 tlhIn`toq  Icon User is offline

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Re: WinForms vs. WPF (again)

Posted 15 March 2017 - 05:51 PM

View PostCurtis Rutland, on 15 March 2017 - 02:56 PM, said:

StackOverflowException


Yes - I'm exceptional there too.
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#30 tlhIn`toq  Icon User is offline

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Re: WinForms vs. WPF (again)

Posted 15 March 2017 - 05:59 PM

View Postmaceysoftware, on 15 March 2017 - 04:49 AM, said:

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WinForms is dead in the professional world to all but legacy applications that are being slowly migrated.


Not for all of us sadly. For example where I work we are still migrating a VB6 application to .Net WinForms, because the "learning curve to WPF is to hard"


My built in mental translator read that as: I'm looking for a new job at a real company.


Quote

At the same time there isn't the same drive to move forward to WPF and/Xamarin where I currently live, compared to what it most be like where you guys live.


You live on Earth right? That place with the internet that levels the playing field so anyone anywhere can sell to everyone everywhere. Jobs are great - I love mine. But they are not continuous revenue streams. Work you do on your own, sell on the various market places make nice side money to put away for retirement, and keep generating even when you go fishing/shooting.

Quote

I don't get on with Web Development, its not that I can't do it, its that I just don't enjoy it,

Life is too short to spend 50% of your waking hours doing something you don't like.
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