Daily stand-ups/Scrums as a software developer...

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18 Replies - 3639 Views - Last Post: 16 June 2017 - 08:43 AM

Poll: Daily Scrums too frequent for a software development team ? (14 member(s) have cast votes)

Daily Scrums too frequent for a software development team ?

  1. I love daily scrums (7 votes [50.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 50.00%

  2. As a software developer, weekly would be sufficient (4 votes [28.57%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 28.57%

  3. Longer than a week per scrum (1 votes [7.14%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.14%

  4. I think scrums are counter productive, let me program in peace! (2 votes [14.29%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 14.29%

  5. What the hell is a scrum! :O (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 jlis  Icon User is offline

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Daily stand-ups/Scrums as a software developer...

Posted 27 February 2017 - 03:12 PM

I'm curious,

As software developers, what are your opinions on scrum meetings ?

I'm not talking about scrum software or task managing software for sprint backlogs, I'm talking about in person physical team scrum meetings.

Currently I benefit from scrum meetings, but as a small team of developers we have daily scrums, and I often find these too frequent, 2/3 day between each scrum would be ideal for me personally.

Thanks,

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Replies To: Daily stand-ups/Scrums as a software developer...

#2 andrewsw  Icon User is offline

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Re: Daily stand-ups/Scrums as a software developer...

Posted 27 February 2017 - 03:18 PM

Are they of 10/15 minutes duration as they should be?
How long are your sprints?

Frequency of review is a central tenet of Scrum. The stand up should be brief and highlight any issues, or potential issues, at an early stage.
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#3 jlis  Icon User is offline

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Re: Daily stand-ups/Scrums as a software developer...

Posted 27 February 2017 - 03:20 PM

They're usually about 20 minutes, and we work in 3 week sprint cycles.

I'd love to see some studies to find the optimal period between scrum against different sprint cycles. Not sure how you'd judge what is optimal though, apart from feedback.
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#4 andrewsw  Icon User is offline

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Re: Daily stand-ups/Scrums as a software developer...

Posted 27 February 2017 - 03:24 PM

If you don't feel that there is much to discuss why are they taking 20 minutes? Sounds like more effort should be adopted to reduce this to 10/15, then you probably wouldn't find it so much of a chore.

Maybe your sprint could be 2 weeks..? Only speculating of course ;)



I should say that I'm no expert, it is just that this is something that I've been reading about a lot recently.
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#5 jlis  Icon User is offline

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Re: Daily stand-ups/Scrums as a software developer...

Posted 27 February 2017 - 03:25 PM

View Postandrewsw, on 27 February 2017 - 03:18 PM, said:

Frequency of review is a central tenet of Scrum. The stand up should be brief and highlight any issues, or potential issues, at an early stage.


I'm 100% behind the reason and rationale of a daily scrum, it's just the one rule for all method.

I work in a small team in a bigger organisation that consists of myself and 2 other developers, we're usually working on completely separate things, and 9 times out of 10 everything is fine, it's a repetition of the previous day.

I worked in a larger team previously where the daily scrum was more beneficial to me. So I've had mixed feelings on the frequency of daily stand-ups.

Maybe in years to come when I'm much more experienced as a developer I'll be able to appreciate the importance
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#6 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is offline

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Re: Daily stand-ups/Scrums as a software developer...

Posted 27 February 2017 - 06:55 PM

If it feels like the meeting is dragging, you can try reminding people that the point is a quick update, not a long chat. If you want to do this, it doesn't hurt to start by setting a good example. I try to keep a good log of my work in a file in my editor, so I'm always ready for the standup, and I review it before I get into the meeting so I can present a nice crisp report, focused on the standard three questions. I find that when I do this, people take the cue and they sort of move it along a little more.
Another thing I've asked people to do, and this has had a lot of success, is to refrain from reading off their notes. The idea is that if you deliver the report from memory it's likely that you'll focus on the important details and not on reading out everything that you wrote down. Also, this prevents them from falling into the "reading aloud" cadence that people tend to adopt when they're just reciting a list off a page. It's surprising, but people are much more engaging when they're telling you something they know than when they're reciting a list. This in turn means that you're more likely to actually listen to what they say, and it's going to register.

I also tend to remind people that conversation is not part of the standup, so if a report starts to turn into a discussion I'll ask people - politely! - to hold it for later.
One of the thing we've started doing for our standup is the "post-standup", which people of course refer to as the "sit-down". We reserve the room for 45 minutes instead of 15, and if something comes up that needs to be talked through, we have half an hour that we can use for that. Of course, people are welcome to leave if they would rather get down to work, but usually these discussions are things that interest the whole team, and it's limited to half an hour, so people will stick around.

Personally I find that if you make it work well, the standup is a really good way to connect to what the team is doing, and for me it's important to be part of a team and not just another cog in the machine.

Quote

we're usually working on completely separate things, and 9 times out of 10 everything is fine, it's a repetition of the previous day.


This might mean that your tickets are bigger than they ought to be. We try to scale tickets to be small enough to finish in 2-3 days (although of course we never estimate in terms of time, it's always dimensionless relative sizing). This has a number of advantages. First of all, it's a lot easier to get the sizing right if you're looking at a small project, because there are fewer places where unquestioned assumptions can hide. Secondly, it means that if something does go sideways, it's a smaller part of the sprint at risk. And thirdly, it means that more hands can touch any given area of the code, which means we're more cross-functional, which means that if one of us goes on vacation work can continue on any area of the code.
As an added benefit, this means that there's always progress to report, and new tickets moving into the "Done" column, which feels good.
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#7 no2pencil  Icon User is online

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Re: Daily stand-ups/Scrums as a software developer...

Posted 27 February 2017 - 06:58 PM

I thought I knew agile scrum, until our new VP of tech came aboard. The shit is a life saver where I work. It was anarchy until he brought balance into the shop.

Scrum specifically, ours are open to the other teams, but they are not allowed to talk or ask questions. For the first two weeks, the marketing folks were in there daily. Little by little they saw they had no control, that it was only informational, & it suddenly wasn't important for them. Agile scrum is really balancing the tech/non-tech.

Also, our scrum is under 10 minutes, that's a hand full of developers, yesterdays work, todays agenda, & QA updates from the previous days testing. It's also a great way to get everyone together for blockers, & also positive shout-outs. Your shit wasn't in our scrum? Talk to the scrum master, leave the devs alone.
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#8 astonecipher  Icon User is offline

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Re: Daily stand-ups/Scrums as a software developer...

Posted 27 February 2017 - 10:12 PM

No2 echos my company motto.

If you are spending 20 minutes in a scrum for 3 people, you are talking to much!

We also have lightning rounds, unless there is a hurdle to open up about, use as few words as possible to describe your itinerary.
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#9 jlis  Icon User is offline

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Re: Daily stand-ups/Scrums as a software developer...

Posted 28 February 2017 - 02:44 AM

Thank you all so much for these detailed responses. Some great tips. I'll be using going forward with my scrums. Genuinely do really appreciate the replies!
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#10 DarenR  Icon User is offline

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Re: Daily stand-ups/Scrums as a software developer...

Posted 28 February 2017 - 07:17 AM

they bore me because i can only say hey im working on x so many time in a week---
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#11 no2pencil  Icon User is online

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Re: Daily stand-ups/Scrums as a software developer...

Posted 28 February 2017 - 07:52 AM

Then your company/group, is not breaking down epics into tasks small enough.
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#12 Skydiver  Icon User is online

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Re: Daily stand-ups/Scrums as a software developer...

Posted 28 February 2017 - 07:22 PM

What part of X did you complete yesterday? What part of X are you working on today? Is anything blocking you from working on X (and therefore you may not have actually been working on X yesterday)?

Are you sure that you are working on a user story? Or are you actually working on a spike?
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#13 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is offline

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Re: Daily stand-ups/Scrums as a software developer...

Posted 28 February 2017 - 08:03 PM

View PostDarenR, on 28 February 2017 - 09:17 AM, said:

they bore me because i can only say hey im working on x so many time in a week---


Sure sign that you're doing it wrong. Revisit your estimation process - if you think a piece of work is going to take you a week, find the seam and break it up into two or three parts.
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#14 Skydiver  Icon User is online

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Re: Daily stand-ups/Scrums as a software developer...

Posted 01 March 2017 - 07:48 AM

View Postjon.kiparsky, on 27 February 2017 - 08:55 PM, said:

And thirdly, it means that more hands can touch any given area of the code, which means we're more cross-functional, which means that if one of us goes on vacation work can continue on any area of the code.

+1 to this.

If the other developer(s) get hit by a bus today, you would would know where they were at? If everybody was just reporting "Worked on X yesterday. Still working on X today. No problems.", how would you know where to pick up where the other developer left off yesterday?

It'll probably be a non-issue if you were doing pair programming (and only one of the pair got hit by a bus), but if you were doing 3 week sprints and people were not following the mantras of "checkin soon, checkin often" and "only checkin working code", then you'd have to put the incremental work for the current sprint in jeopardy.
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#15 dawidg  Icon User is offline

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Re: Daily stand-ups/Scrums as a software developer...

Posted 15 June 2017 - 06:10 PM

A daily report? Why not make it hourly?

"Individuals and interactions over processes and tools." I say let the team create their own process.
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