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#1 eazyyzae  Icon User is offline

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Game Frameworks? Cop-out for real programming?

Posted 03 July 2017 - 06:51 AM

Yeah, just wondering what the general opinion is. I am currently using Monogame as I wouldn't know where to even start with whatever comes before the frameworks... DX, OpenGL... what comes before that, lol??

Done a year at college (Mature Student like, lol) and I had to learn a bit of C# which was new to me as my pref was C++. I'm now going back to college in Aug to do HND Software Development. SO... I'm not even going to consider changing my approach as I simply wont have the time or brain power to manage. Currently developing a game using C# and Mono to kinda give me a head start/advantage for when I go back. Just a bit.

I did use Unreal Engine for a bit. Almost completed a full game without using a line of code. But they kept updating it and I don't even think my project would compile now. I can see game engines have there place in software development so I'm not mocking them I just felt I needed to have more control/freedom with my game programming. So researching XNA to only find it had died ages ago I found Monogame and it seems to be working out.

So what's your opinion? Am I taking the easy road or ??

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#2 modi123_1  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game Frameworks? Cop-out for real programming?

Posted 03 July 2017 - 08:27 AM

For me it's pretty simple break down. Do I want to make games, or do I want to spend all my time making/updating a busted game engine that I am not fully forearmed with knowledge to build myself, never actually produce a game, and most likely off the reservation in terms of best practices and building useful skills? I did the latter thinking 'erh mah gerb this iz realz programming' and got - not shockingly - nowhere.

I am not certain what games you were making with unreal, but I prefer Unity.. which, sure, chunks of it were no lines of code, but after that game movement, enemy creation, level progression, etc all required quite a bit of code.
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#3 Skydiver  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game Frameworks? Cop-out for real programming?

Posted 04 July 2017 - 03:43 AM

Game engines and frameworks let you get on with creating the content and logic of the game, and not have to deal with the boilerplate and/or minutea. It is a tool to let you focus on expressing ideas. If you take using an engine or framework as cop out for real programming, then it should follow that using a high level language like C, C++, C#, Java, Javascript, LUA, HLSL, etc. is also a cop out from real programming -- real programmers write in assembly.
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#4 eazyyzae  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game Frameworks? Cop-out for real programming?

Posted 04 July 2017 - 04:57 AM

Ohhh, Yeah lol. I remember doing a traffic light exercise in ASM. I don't remember it being fun. Where does it all begin..... with this maybe? HA HA.
Posted Image
(The London Science Museum's difference engine, the first one actually built from Babbage's design.)

This post has been edited by Skydiver: 04 July 2017 - 08:10 AM
Reason for edit:: Removed unnecessary quote. No need to quote the post above yours.

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#5 Skydiver  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game Frameworks? Cop-out for real programming?

Posted 04 July 2017 - 08:16 AM

There is no need to quote the post above yours. Just use the big Reply button or the Fast Reply area.

LOL! That should make LAN parties... interesting.
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#6 Skydiver  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game Frameworks? Cop-out for real programming?

Posted 05 July 2017 - 06:56 AM

Here's some food for thought: Consider that older versions of DirectX provided some basic shading models: wireframe, flat, and Gouraud. Starting in DirectX 10, they took it away because most game writers end up writing their own shaders anyway. So would it be a cop-out to use the pre-baked shading models, or would you take the time to also learn some HLSL so that you can quickly shade your game objects?
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#7 NeoTifa  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game Frameworks? Cop-out for real programming?

Posted 05 July 2017 - 10:27 AM

View PostSkydiver, on 04 July 2017 - 06:43 AM, said:

real programmers write in assembly.


YYYYAAASSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!

You can "use" a framework, and just use the parts you cba to write yourself.
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#8 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is online

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Re: Game Frameworks? Cop-out for real programming?

Posted 05 July 2017 - 01:06 PM

View PostSkydiver, on 04 July 2017 - 05:43 AM, said:

real programmers write in assembly.


Real programmers use a magnetized needle and a steady hand.
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#9 Skydiver  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game Frameworks? Cop-out for real programming?

Posted 05 July 2017 - 06:39 PM

LOL! I'd not heard that one before.

I did hear about real hackers who pour liquid nitrogen on chips, decap them, and then use electrodes. Everybody else is a script kiddie after that kind of hacking. :)
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#10 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is online

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Re: Game Frameworks? Cop-out for real programming?

Posted 05 July 2017 - 06:56 PM

Really? Credit where credit is due:

Posted Image

(link to original)
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#11 Skydiver  Icon User is offline

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Re: Game Frameworks? Cop-out for real programming?

Posted 05 July 2017 - 07:03 PM

I recall the emacs part. I guess I'm getting old and forgot the progression towards the magnetized needle. :)
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