9 Replies - 396 Views - Last Post: 11 November 2017 - 11:10 AM

#1 InoshimaLance  Icon User is offline

  • New D.I.C Head

Reputation: 0
  • View blog
  • Posts: 5
  • Joined: 09-November 17

Little Advice - is python a good beginner language?

Posted 09 November 2017 - 01:34 PM

Hello Everyone! Newb here.

Cut to the chase. I just started learning programming for real on October, and decided to take it as my main career. But that's not what I wanna talk about.

I searched around at first to see where could I start and some pages listed the most popular languages around as well as the best for beginners and that led me to Ruby and Python. My final call was to start with Python, since it seemed friendly enough and open enough and had lots of tutorials for beginners around.

The thing is that I would like to ask what you guys thing about good programming languages for beginners and why?

And since we are talking about languages, I would like to also know if you guys had any sort of advice for me on the way up. My goals are to be an app/game-developer one day, and have a team of people working together. I am also learning many other things.

For the users of Python: What do you think about Python as a programming language overall? I understand that through modules you can do almost anything with it,do you think it fulfills a nice role in any sort of programming branch? Do you think any other language could fulfill app/web/game development better, which?

For Non-Python users: What do you think about Python too? Why would you not use it? Under app/web/game developement or any other branch of the trade, what language do you think is better?

Thanks to everyone in advance.

This post has been edited by modi123_1: 09 November 2017 - 01:52 PM
Reason for edit:: Fixed the title to be more descriptive.


Is This A Good Question/Topic? 0
  • +

Replies To: Little Advice - is python a good beginner language?

#2 modi123_1  Icon User is online

  • Suitor #2
  • member icon



Reputation: 13485
  • View blog
  • Posts: 53,847
  • Joined: 12-June 08

Re: Little Advice - is python a good beginner language?

Posted 09 November 2017 - 01:44 PM

There's the pinned thread "The First Program Language Conundrum".. you should flip through that.

Quote

My goals are to be an app/game-developer one day, and have a team of people working together.

Eyeball the main engines out there .. Unity, Unreal, and Cry. See what languages they support and then pick one of those up as well. I am a fan of Unity and C#. For the love of Peter.. don't.. and I swear I can't stress this enough .. DONT think you are going to start out game development and write your own engine. It will be a waste of time, energy, and effort that will go no where. Chiefly if you are new then you don't even know enough to develop it for the right uses.

Python's ok.
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#3 InoshimaLance  Icon User is offline

  • New D.I.C Head

Reputation: 0
  • View blog
  • Posts: 5
  • Joined: 09-November 17

Re: Little Advice - is python a good beginner language?

Posted 09 November 2017 - 01:56 PM

Quote

For the love of Peter.. don't.. and I swear I can't stress this enough .. DONT think you are going to start out game development and write your own engine.


Never in live, hehe. I bet even the smallest, simplest engines out there are made with years of coding and small teams, Unity and Unreal I bet kidnapped a town-full of programmers and forced them to program those engines... Nah, Great games now are using Unity and Unreal so thats all I need, all the engines I need are out, I just wanna learn to use maybe Unity or Unreal, I still haven't decided. But thats like step 7 out of 10 and I am still at step 1: learn a simple programming language to get your head on the game. Step 2 btw is: Make an above average beginner app/game with said Language at least. x3.

Unity uses C#? I will check on it.

What do you guys thing about like for example, using wrappers instead of the actual language to program on an engine like RPGMaker or Unity but with another language? Risky, useless, slow?

I read something about front end development? What is that, I am lost, hehe. Maybe I should surf around google and check all types of developer job options, do you guys happen to have a place where I can check on that?
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#4 modi123_1  Icon User is online

  • Suitor #2
  • member icon



Reputation: 13485
  • View blog
  • Posts: 53,847
  • Joined: 12-June 08

Re: Little Advice - is python a good beginner language?

Posted 09 November 2017 - 02:04 PM

Unity can use three languages .. C#, UnityScript ("Javascript for Unity"), and Boo. The bulk of the books and tutorials are in C#.

I am not following what you mean by using wrappers with Unity.

Front end typically means what is displayed and presented.
https://en.wikipedia...t_and_back_ends

Yeah.. you can search up job boards.. there are a few out there.
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#5 InoshimaLance  Icon User is offline

  • New D.I.C Head

Reputation: 0
  • View blog
  • Posts: 5
  • Joined: 09-November 17

Re: Little Advice - is python a good beginner language?

Posted 09 November 2017 - 06:03 PM

Quote

I am not following what you mean by using wrappers with Unity.


On a tutorial I saw that wrappers were code that interacted witg another code as a "wrapper", like programming something with Javascript to use and interact with C#.
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#6 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is online

  • Chinga la migra
  • member icon


Reputation: 10682
  • View blog
  • Posts: 18,296
  • Joined: 19-March 11

Re: Little Advice - is python a good beginner language?

Posted 09 November 2017 - 07:35 PM

If you want to learn to write programs, python's a good place to start. It's a widely-used language, it supports several different paradigms to a reasonable degree, and there's a lot of CS tutorial material written in it. It's a nice language to work in, in the sense that it's pleasant to write python programs - this is not a unique feature, of course, but it's certainly a nice-to-have in whatever language you end up working in.
There are other good starting languages as well. For example Java is a pretty good place to start, in that it gives the beginner a lot of structure to work with. Also, it was the dominant language of instruction for CS coursework for about ten years, and lots of material exists for it, including the fourth edition of Sedgewick's very well-regarded Algoriithms textbook. (on the other hand, the currently popular CLRS text uses a pseudo-code which looks a lot like python, so go figure) Java is strongly object-oriented, and enforces that paradigm which can be useful since that's a very popular way to write programs. Etc, etc, there are good reasons to consider Java.

Don't worry about starting in the language you expect to end up in. Until you've learned your third language you're probably not doing anything interesting in any case, so it doesn't matter what order you learn them in. (this is a highly idiosyncratic view and is probably not shared by all programmers)

I suggest you start with an intro CS course at your local community or state college - you can usually audit these if you ask nicely, or just take it for credit so you can get your coursework graded and maybe continue on and get some piece of paper at the end of the road. Whatever language they choose is your first language. Take discrete math and algorithms as well - these are pretty foundational classes and if you really want to work in software they'll be useful to you if only in the interview room.

Once you've done that, stop and take stock and decide what you want to do next. In general, passing a college-level algorithms course will mean that you've got a reasonable level of competence in the language used in that course and you can consider learning a second language, so you should do that. Preferably a language very different from the one you started in, for best advancement. If you started in Java or C# or something, try a Lisp. It'll mess with your head and make it work better.

In any case at that point, you'll be far enough down the road that nothing I suggest to follow this will be relevant anymore because you'll have your own experience and ideas to fall back on, and those will be more useful to you than anything I have to say, so at that point you should follow them.
Was This Post Helpful? 1
  • +
  • -

#7 tlhIn`toq  Icon User is offline

  • Xamarin Cert. Dev.
  • member icon

Reputation: 6507
  • View blog
  • Posts: 14,372
  • Joined: 02-June 10

Re: Little Advice - is python a good beginner language?

Posted 10 November 2017 - 04:52 PM

> My goals are to be an app/game-developer one day, and have a team of people working together.

FYI - Every rookie thinks it would be cool to write games. Because they like playing them it must therefore be cool to write them... The environment must be like those hip free-thinking Google-esque campuses... Right? I've never heard an actual game developer talk about how awesome it is to be in a game making company. Usually it more like "I get paid squat, work 60 hours a week, have pressure on top of pressure, and am completely disposable with no job security because there are 1,000 other people waiting for my slot to open up."

So here's a piece of advice that can apply to any job - Check out the reality of the situation before you just assume.

There are 1,000 different kinds of coders and coding opportunities out there. Being one cog in the big machine isn't necessarily a life-long position. Being one guy in a 10 man team of a family-owned business (as one example) means you get treated like one of the family. Or being part of a company with several small teams means you are still considered valuable to those you work with. Companies you wouldn't have thought of have coding teams. Outboard boat engine makers. Custom RV shops. Headstone engravers. The company that makes digital scales. Or home automation systems. FedEx. Southwest Airlines. Once you get past the thrill of what genre your product is in (game, medical, insurance) its still all coding. You're sitting at a desk banging on a keyboard. So look past the product and look closer at the company and the employer/employee dynamic. And whether there is a chance to do something interesting and creative code-wise, instead of just banging out one little bland function after another as your boss assigns you.

Also... Don't approach this as "what language to learn to get a job". That's backwards. Decide on the job path, then learn what that path needs. If you want to work games... Well.. Macintosh games, or Microsoft (windows/xbox) games, or Android phone games.... Each operating system has a different primary coding language. First figure out where you want to go, then find out what road takes you there.

This post has been edited by tlhIn`toq: 10 November 2017 - 04:57 PM

Was This Post Helpful? 1
  • +
  • -

#8 baavgai  Icon User is offline

  • Dreaming Coder
  • member icon


Reputation: 6979
  • View blog
  • Posts: 14,601
  • Joined: 16-October 07

Re: Little Advice - is python a good beginner language?

Posted 11 November 2017 - 06:28 AM

First, yes, Python is an excellent language for beginners. It's programmer friendly and will allow you to focus on problem solving.

That said, others might dislike it for the very reasons that recommend it. It might be too easy. It doesn't force you to deal with strong type declarations. You usually don't have to worry about low level cruft.

My real answer: programming languages are tools in a tool box. A carpenter wouldn't have a tool box with just a hammer and a programmer shouldn't have a toolbox with just language X.

Learn Python if it appeals to you: it's nice language. Then learn another language. The more languages you learn, be better you'll be at all of them.

I know, that sounds like a tall order. Your first language comes with the extra challenge of being your first experience thinking like a programmer. Once you think like a programmer, a new language is simply a new way of expressing that. Come to think if it, the first two languages I learned are now dead: BASIC with line numbers, about as dead as it gets, and Turbo Pascal, also pretty dead. I don't miss BASIC. Pascal was kind of fun, but that's how it goes: technology always changes.

http://www.programmr...uage-every-year
Was This Post Helpful? 1
  • +
  • -

#9 InoshimaLance  Icon User is offline

  • New D.I.C Head

Reputation: 0
  • View blog
  • Posts: 5
  • Joined: 09-November 17

Re: Little Advice - is python a good beginner language?

Posted 11 November 2017 - 09:05 AM

View PosttlhIn`toq, on 10 November 2017 - 07:22 PM, said:

> My goals are to be an app/game-developer one day, and have a team of people working together.

FYI - Every rookie thinks it would be cool to write games. Because they like playing them it must therefore be cool to write them... The environment must be like those hip free-thinking Google-esque campuses... Right? I've never heard an actual game developer talk about how awesome it is to be in a game making company. Usually it more like "I get paid squat, work 60 hours a week, have pressure on top of pressure, and am completely disposable with no job security because there are 1,000 other people waiting for my slot to open up."

So here's a piece of advice that can apply to any job - Check out the reality of the situation before you just assume.

There are 1,000 different kinds of coders and coding opportunities out there. Being one cog in the big machine isn't necessarily a life-long position. Being one guy in a 10 man team of a family-owned business (as one example) means you get treated like one of the family. Or being part of a company with several small teams means you are still considered valuable to those you work with. Companies you wouldn't have thought of have coding teams. Outboard boat engine makers. Custom RV shops. Headstone engravers. The company that makes digital scales. Or home automation systems. FedEx. Southwest Airlines. Once you get past the thrill of what genre your product is in (game, medical, insurance) its still all coding. You're sitting at a desk banging on a keyboard. So look past the product and look closer at the company and the employer/employee dynamic. And whether there is a chance to do something interesting and creative code-wise, instead of just banging out one little bland function after another as your boss assigns you.

Also... Don't approach this as "what language to learn to get a job". That's backwards. Decide on the job path, then learn what that path needs. If you want to work games... Well.. Macintosh games, or Microsoft (windows/xbox) games, or Android phone games.... Each operating system has a different primary coding language. First figure out where you want to go, then find out what road takes you there.


I understand and take your advice, thanks. Is not like I plan to be a baby and cry if gamming opportunities never come to me, and also I would not turn a well-paid good job just because is not gaming or directly creating apps or anything. But if the chances come and I find enough free time to give to game/app development I will certainly do so, that's what I meant.

baavgai said:

My real answer: programming languages are tools in a tool box. A carpenter wouldn't have a tool box with just a hammer and a programmer shouldn't have a toolbox with just language X.


I plan to learn Python Basics then start with Gaming, GUI and Advanced with Python and Java or Javascript, depending on what I want the most. Java helps me with Android apps while Javascript would be more for Web and starting in Game-development. Of course I will not stop there, I wanna learn Ruby too, maybe some C#, and specialize all I can in all of them.

My only real programming skill right now is on Excel's formulas, hehe. So I have a huge way ahead of me, but I can assure you guys that at least my foundations are pretty strong. I know a lot of Excel's formula programming and a bit of basic C++ I learned in college.

And my job demands are not so arrogant as to say I will not accept a good job on a good company, hell, that might even help me on my actual dreams since I might learn new stuff from experience on different teams.

To be perfectly honest, I might not even be the main programmer in a team to develop apps or games but rather the programming and storyboard manager, and leave the programming to useful and strong young guys around, x3.
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

#10 jon.kiparsky  Icon User is online

  • Chinga la migra
  • member icon


Reputation: 10682
  • View blog
  • Posts: 18,296
  • Joined: 19-March 11

Re: Little Advice - is python a good beginner language?

Posted 11 November 2017 - 11:10 AM

View PostInoshimaLance, on 11 November 2017 - 11:05 AM, said:

To be perfectly honest, I might not even be the main programmer in a team to develop apps or games


Yeah, you're not going to be the "main programmer" on anything until you've been on a couple of team and shown that you can deliver code and also manage people and product.

Quote

but rather the programming and
storyboard manager, and leave the programming to useful and strong young guys around, x3.

You mean a product manager? That's its own skill and can really make or break a product, much more than any particular programmer can.
Was This Post Helpful? 0
  • +
  • -

Page 1 of 1