Bad programming languages?

Do you look down on any one language, and why

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#1 Cyborg Ninja  Icon User is offline

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Bad programming languages?

Post icon  Posted 31 January 2008 - 07:44 PM

Is there a programming language out there that you think is inferior for any reason, particularly if it's popular? Why do you feel about it the way you do?

</morbid curiosity>
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#2 MorphiusFaydal  Icon User is offline

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Re: Bad programming languages?

Posted 31 January 2008 - 09:06 PM

I have an irrational, almost pathological, hatred of Java.
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#3 Nykc  Icon User is offline

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Re: Bad programming languages?

Posted 31 January 2008 - 09:42 PM

View PostMorphiusFaydal, on 31 Jan, 2008 - 11:06 PM, said:

I have an irrational, almost pathological, hatred of Java.


I Concur.
But I have those same feelings for VB.NET & ASP.NET
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#4 Jingle  Icon User is offline

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Re: Bad programming languages?

Posted 31 January 2008 - 09:45 PM

View PostMorphiusFaydal, on 31 Jan, 2008 - 09:06 PM, said:

I have an irrational, almost pathological, hatred of Java.

to bad
but I'm not arguing because I know what your points would be. I'll leave the arguing to someone more experienced in java.
I love ruby which for me takes the place of java.
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#5 RodgerB  Icon User is offline

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Re: Bad programming languages?

Posted 31 January 2008 - 10:26 PM

Quote

But I have those same feelings for VB.NET & ASP.NET


Ok, I'm not sure if its just one of those internet trends to pay out VB.NET, but one must note that VB.NET can do everything C# can do. If you wish to challenge this view (not directed at you exclusively nykc), please provide evidence as to why they are different, and not claim they one or the other can do heaps more just because you say so.

In other words, your post should have really included C# nykc. VB/VB.NET were never bad languages, but looked down upon by developers in the past.
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#6 Nykc  Icon User is offline

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Re: Bad programming languages?

Posted 31 January 2008 - 10:57 PM

One reason I like C# over VB.Net is the source code to the C# compiler is available from Microsoft and Novell, which means I can develop apps for other OS's such as Linux - which I happen to be typing on at this moment.
At work, we use Microsoft servers however they are using C++, Very little ASP.net, Mostly CFML and Javascript with XML & SQL for databases.
You would be amazed at what they are doing with that.
With C# the overall syntax to me makes more since, although I am more experienced with C++, and touched upon Java a little bit as well you can see the pattern develop in syntax.

I developed small apps with C#, and nothing really with VB.NET namely because I didn't care for it.
I would love to get into a drawn out discussion with you, but really I don't have the ground to stand on except for those minor points I just mentioned.

However, I would love to see a discussion over this topic.
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#7 corliss  Icon User is offline

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Re: Bad programming languages?

Posted 31 January 2008 - 11:36 PM

For me it is VB and or VB.Net.
Dim this and <> that.
What the F' is that.
I side on C# where a variable is typed at the begining of its decleration in most cases.
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#8 Martyr2  Icon User is offline

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Re: Bad programming languages?

Posted 31 January 2008 - 11:43 PM

I haven't been particularly fond of ASP.NET or COBOL. ASP seems too gimmicky for me and COBOL is just a pain in the ass if you have one thing out of place. It upchucks all over your screen.

Other than that, it is all goooooood. :)
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#9 Israel  Icon User is offline

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Re: Bad programming languages?

Posted 31 January 2008 - 11:56 PM

How can anyone hate Java and like C#??? Isn't C# just Microsoft's sad attempt at trying to make their own Java that's not cross-platform. If you said, C or C++ is better I'd have no argument there. What would make C# better than Java???

Yeah, COBOL sucks! If you wanna go low level go all the way and do assembly!

This post has been edited by Israel: 01 February 2008 - 12:00 AM

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#10 RodgerB  Icon User is offline

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Re: Bad programming languages?

Posted 01 February 2008 - 12:34 AM

View Postnykc, on 1 Feb, 2008 - 04:57 PM, said:

With C# the overall syntax to me makes more since, although I am more experienced with C++, and touched upon Java a little bit as well you can see the pattern develop in syntax.

I developed small apps with C#, and nothing really with VB.NET namely because I didn't care for it.
I would love to get into a drawn out discussion with you, but really I don't have the ground to stand on except for those minor points I just mentioned.


I thought the real discussion about this topic was "Bad programming languages". VB.NET is not a "bad programming language", just because it isn't exactly as multi-platform as many would like it to be, the compiler isn't open-source afaik, and your work doesn't use it.

I admit, I like C#. I came from a C background, and C# really helped me migrate into JAVA. But something about VB.NET just kept me interested. I found strict error messages really frustrating, expecially with conversions etc, but if you actually get into the nitty gritty of the VB.NET code, it uses CStr and CInt functions to do conversions when in C# it would have provoked an error message, usually regarding invalid types.

I'm sure PsychoCoder will back me up here when I say VB.NET is just as capable as C#. I hate "What programming language is better than the other" threads, because it is really the programmer's preference, and a programmer will find that a language is completely useless over time, but that is their quest.
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#11 1lacca  Icon User is offline

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Re: Bad programming languages?

Posted 01 February 2008 - 12:50 AM

I think all languages have their usages, it's the fault of the developers if they try to write real programs in a language that was designed to help learn programming, or do anything that is far from the language's original focus.
Anyway, I have to confess: I always get an epileptic seizure when I learn that I'll have to do something with Javascript (however it is treated quite well with better debugging tools of late)
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#12 baavgai  Icon User is offline

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Re: Bad programming languages?

Posted 01 February 2008 - 05:50 AM

Languages are tools designed to function in a certain way to do a certain job. If a tool is capable of doing the job, it is by definition a "good tool." I don't believe there are any commercial languages used by more than a handful of people that could reasonably be considered "bad."

Now, personal opinion, well, COBOL is the suck. ;) There are a number of languages I'm not fond of. There are some I'll only use when no other options are available.

In .NET, I find C# to be the best choice. I like the syntax, I believe it's Java with the benefit of hindsight. I find it a joy to program in. Others prefer VB.NET. If the Microsoft dog and pony shows I've been to are any indication, most prefer VB.NET.

I find VB syntax awkward compared to the C/Java legacy syntax models. However, I'll write a VBScript command for a server job before all others, because it hooks into COM cleaner than the JScript stuff and has explicit checking.

Tools are tools, some fit some people better than others. There's really no bad in that, just different perspective. ( Note, I still reserve the right to mock VB users from time to time. ;) )
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#13 Nykc  Icon User is offline

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Re: Bad programming languages?

Posted 01 February 2008 - 06:50 AM

Tools are definetley tools, the company I work for like I stated uses everything. Hell we just lost our COBOL programmer. You have to like abuse to be a COBOL programmer lol.
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#14 PsychoCoder  Icon User is offline

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Re: Bad programming languages?

Posted 01 February 2008 - 07:41 AM

COBOL/BASIC/QBASIC all give me nightmares, but I think the latter 2 are personal preference. As for the "C# is better than VB.Net" argument, since Im certified in both I can tell you there is absolutely nothing that can be done in C# that cannot be done in VB.Net, since, of course, they both rely on the same Framework.

As a personal preference I prefer C#, just because of my background and up bringing if you will, but I will program in either .Net language. To the person who said that the source for the C# compiler is available, wrong, you cannot find the source for C#, the compiler, or really any Microsoft language. I used to have an irrational fear/hatred of Java, then I realized that everyone had to start somewhere :P

VB6(5,4,3,...) I will only program in if I absolutely have to otherwise I avoid it like the plague, though I started working with VB when it was version 3 (which I still have the installer for by the way lol). In the old days VB6 was severely frowned upon, and rightly so, as not being a real language, but it was a good teaching language to teach new programmers the basics, very basic.

With the advent of VB.Net the VB world completely changed, now VB developers could do OO programming, which was one of the serious downfalls for the earlier versions of VB. In my opinion this gave strictly VB developers the right to hold their head high knowing their language had finally grown up and caught up with the rest of the world, and with the changes coming down the pipe for future versions of VB.Net I think some will truly be shocked.

When it comes to working with Web Technologies, anything you can do in PHP and Cold Fusion I can do with ASP.Net, and then some. Not to downgrade either, as I am slowly teaching myself PHP, but in some areas I do find it lacking slightly. At least with ASP.Net you're working with a real language, not a scripting language (I can see the PHP people gearing up to ream me, but thats the risk you take in threads like this). With ASP.Net you're working with the same OO language you do Windows Application with, whether it be C# or VB.Net.

As stated several times in this thread, I dont think there are good languages, and bad languages, they're all tools, and its strictly up to the developer to pick the tool they're comfortable with. I think its wrong and immature for a developer to bash another developer simply because of the technology they chose to use.

JMHO :)
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#15 girasquid  Icon User is offline

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Re: Bad programming languages?

Posted 01 February 2008 - 07:53 AM

I have to say that I don't particularly enjoy VB - if you're coming to it after knowing some other language, things like dim and <> instead of != are just weird. I don't like the way that certain Visual Studio features(like the task list) will have more options available for VB projects than they will for C# projects.

I'm not really a fan of PHP, either. It seems like everyone and their cousin/grandma has decided to sit down and learn PHP - but not enough to prevent things like SQL injections.
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