Java vs C++

From Being A Noob To Writing A Full Out MMORPG

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#1 brandon99337  Icon User is offline

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Java vs C++

Posted 15 February 2008 - 11:30 AM

I Want Everyone To Write Their Own Opinions On The Pro's And Con's Of A MMORPG Written In A Java Applet And A MMORPG Writting In C++.

How Much Easier Would One Be Than The Other?

How Long Would They Take To Make?

How Long Would It Take To Learn Everything Neccesary To Make A MMORPG?

How Many More People Would Play The Game Writting In Java (Since It Would Be Online)

Ect.

Thanks!

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#2 Martyr2  Icon User is offline

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Re: Java vs C++

Posted 15 February 2008 - 11:46 AM

This can be some dangerous territory to ask about. There are people here that are on both sides of the fence as to which is better. Being that the two languages are very similar in ways, I am going to say they are really a choice of preference. mmorpg can be done in either and both can be quite entertaining. Keep this in mind while reading the following answers....

How much easier would one be than the other? Both are very similar and it is a personal preference of the programmer. Try both and see which one you like best.

How long would they take to make? This always depends on the depth of the game you are making. You can easily do months to years developing a great game. Some of the top mmorpg games out there are years in the making by teams of people. They do take quite a bit to make if you want to make them good.

How long would it take to learn everything necessary to make a mmorpg? This can take quite a bit of time. It depends on your level of abilities, resources (including time) and dedication. Most people learn about the language first and then go into the project. You could easily be learning a language for months or years before getting a successful attempt at your own mmorpg.

How many more people would play the game writing in Java? This is purely based on how good your game is. Language itself isn't going to be a huge factor in determining if someone plays your game. Being online may expose the game to more people, so you could see a quicker response to the game... but the goal will be to get them to stay with the game and like it. That is all left up to your game design.

Most people these days mix the two when it comes to mmorpg. They have installed clients written in a language like C++ and communicate over the web while also having some games that are web based. I myself have two desktop games and participate in a few Java online games as well.

I would focus on picking a language you like, learning all you can about it, and fixate on the idea of releasing the best game you can.

:)
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#3 brandon99337  Icon User is offline

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Re: Java vs C++

Posted 15 February 2008 - 11:58 AM

Thanks!

Alright So Let's Say I Really Want To Get Into This. I Have A LOT Of Time On My Hands And Have Learned The Basics Of Both C++ And Java. Most People Say It Would Be Better To Start Off In C++....Why?
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#4 Exsezzus  Icon User is offline

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Re: Java vs C++

Posted 23 March 2008 - 04:01 PM

View Postbrandon99337, on 15 Feb, 2008 - 11:30 AM, said:

I Want Everyone To Write Their Own Opinions On The Pro's And Con's Of A MMORPG Written In A Java Applet And A MMORPG Writting In C++.

How Much Easier Would One Be Than The Other?

How Long Would They Take To Make?

How Long Would It Take To Learn Everything Neccesary To Make A MMORPG?

How Many More People Would Play The Game Writting In Java (Since It Would Be Online)

Ect.

Thanks!


First of all i would like to say that english is not my native language so sry for the mistakes.

I you are planning to create a MMORPG, i would say to go with C++. WHY?

Eventhought Java derived from C, it doesnt have the same performance as C/C++ does, it depends also on what are you planning to create, if your want to create something like World of Warcraft, GuildWar, Lineage, Silkroad or something like this, you must learn Direct or OpenGL -> C++ , forget about java.. my intention is not to be bad, but this massive games is not something that one person could create.

I would recommed you to go first with C++ and use any library like SDL (Simple Direct Media Layer) which is free
and it's a good way to start with games, start by creating some easy and realistic, what i mean is create something that you can achieve. and finished it! then start developing mroe complex Applications and games..

-C++
-Directx
-Win32

good luck with Win32 (this is my personal nightmare);

Java is high level language, C++ is a low language--

You can get very good results with Java.. google for a game called RuneScape this game was done with Java..
but as i said before go with c++, Java will limit you at the end..
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#5 Tom9729  Icon User is offline

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Re: Java vs C++

Posted 23 March 2008 - 05:49 PM

It doesn't matter what language you use. Use the one that's most convenient for you, or the one you know best.

Questions like "How long will it take me to make a MMORPG?" are impossible for us to answer. :)
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#6 red_4900  Icon User is offline

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Re: Java vs C++

Posted 23 March 2008 - 07:22 PM

View PostExsezzus, on 23 Mar, 2008 - 04:01 PM, said:

Java is high level language, C++ is a low language--

is C++ a low level language? as I know, a lot of today's application are written in C++. even most games nowadays. Java or C++, it depends on the programmer preference. (I think)
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#7 MorphiusFaydal  Icon User is offline

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Re: Java vs C++

Posted 23 March 2008 - 07:55 PM

View Postred_4900, on 23 Mar, 2008 - 08:22 PM, said:

View PostExsezzus, on 23 Mar, 2008 - 04:01 PM, said:

Java is high level language, C++ is a low language--

is C++ a low level language? as I know, a lot of today's application are written in C++. even most games nowadays. Java or C++, it depends on the programmer preference. (I think)


I personally wouldn't call C++ a "low level language" in the sense that C is a "low level language". Java, with it's reliance on the JVM, is, to me, a "high level language". C++, I feel, falls somewhere in between these. It can do the same job as C, that is, system's programming, but it has the features expected of a "high level language". I feel the most accurate description would either be a "mid level language" or a "hybrid language". :)
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#8 Steven Smith  Icon User is offline

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Re: Java vs C++

Posted 23 March 2008 - 11:56 PM

On Language Selection

Java is extremely fast compared to other high level languages.
Programmer skill makes more difference than C++/Java.
At one time C was considered to be too slow for high performance applications and things were written in assembly.
Tomorrow's computers will keep getting faster and the most important thing will be development time. Pick a language you like.

Likewise, when you talk about which is easier to create an MMORPG in... it does not matter. Learning a programming language is not the hardest part of launching an MMO. Yes it is a requisite skill, but don't waste too much time deciding.

The number of people that will play your game has nothing to do with the language you write in. When you are talking about MMO sized games you can package a JRE environment with your game which fixes the "do my users have java installed" problem. You can also make games that are played online in C++.

Finally, I must ask. Currently, what is the most ambitious project you have completed. Have you made a 2D single player RPG? Do you have any experience writing something like a basic client/server chat program. Are you familiar with game design in general from a programmer's point of view? Things like active rendering loops, collision detection, etc.

An MMORPG can take anywhere from a year for a single developer to 2-5+ years for a development team. In a team enviroment, individuals can usually stick to their strengths. You don't have programmers trying to create 3D animations, etc. Additionally, you must consider the amount of content your game will have (world area, # of quests, dungeons, etc.). What additional features would you like (trade systems, clans, housing, epic battles, moderated events). Everything eventually comes down to code.

With that said, if you have some experience with creating 2D games and limit the game to a smaller set of features for now, you could probably pull it off. If you have no experience with game development, don't give up on your current goal, but try creating a similar game as a single player. Create the game engine, utilities to add content, etc. Have friends beta test the game to work out kinks etc. Then when you have a working version of your MMO as a single player game, begin working on the networking side using an extra computer as a server and see if you can create a persistant game world that a single player can log into. Keep adding complexity as you gain experience. I think it would be a shame if you created a huge amount of content that worked in theory, but depended on the MMO genre to make sense, and you could never hammer out the bugs to make it playable.

My 2 cents.

This post has been edited by Steven Smith: 23 March 2008 - 11:56 PM

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#9 1lacca  Icon User is offline

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Re: Java vs C++

Posted 24 March 2008 - 05:55 AM

There are endless discussions on it on GameDev.net, you should definitely check some opinions there.
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#10 KristjanS  Icon User is offline

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Re: Java vs C++

Posted 09 April 2008 - 06:23 AM

View PostExsezzus, on 23 Mar, 2008 - 04:01 PM, said:

I would recommed you to go first with C++ and use any library like SDL (Simple Direct Media Layer) which is free
and it's a good way to start with games, start by creating some easy and realistic, what i mean is create something that you can achieve. and finished it! then start developing mroe complex Applications and games..

-C++
-Directx
-Win32

good luck with Win32 (this is my personal nightmare);


This combination will work only in Windows, and that way you can forget about any cross-compatibility. A rather short sighted move, I'd say. By removing DirectX from the list, and replacing it with free and open OpenGL, chances are that one day, if you get that far, you can much more easily port your code to the other platforms, without rewriting everything.

This post has been edited by KristjanS: 09 April 2008 - 06:24 AM

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#11 Tom9729  Icon User is offline

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Re: Java vs C++

Posted 09 April 2008 - 11:02 AM

Don't burn bridges. Code written with DirectX will only run natively on Windows. You'll start with a wider userbase if you allow people on other platforms to run your program as well, use OpenGL. :)

Other than that, Java vs C++ it really doesn't matter. Use whichever one is more convenient for you.
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#12 yanom  Icon User is offline

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Re: Java vs C++

Posted 10 April 2008 - 02:14 PM

Quote

You can also make games that are played online in C++.


I didn't know that! How do you do it?
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#13 yanom  Icon User is offline

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Re: Java vs C++

Posted 10 April 2008 - 02:27 PM

Also, you shouldn't use DirectX. Ever. Not only does it only run on Windoze, but it carries the unholy taint of Microsoft
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#14 Tom9729  Icon User is offline

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Re: Java vs C++

Posted 10 April 2008 - 07:12 PM

View Postyanom, on 10 Apr, 2008 - 02:27 PM, said:

Also, you shouldn't use DirectX. Ever. Not only does it only run on Windoze, but it carries the unholy taint of Microsoft

That's a bit zealous.
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#15 KYA  Icon User is offline

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Re: Java vs C++

Posted 11 April 2008 - 01:39 AM

View Postyanom, on 10 Apr, 2008 - 03:27 PM, said:

Also, you shouldn't use DirectX. Ever. Not only does it only run on Windoze, but it carries the unholy taint of Microsoft


I can't disagree more.
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