[UTCalcs]

I think the death penalty is good to punish capital offenses like murder. If someone takes away another person's life, I don't believe they have a right to live. Under any Social Contract, you can see the fundamental ideas of the death penalty. If I surrender my right to kill, everyone else does also. Once someone reclaims that right, then the other members of society must decide what to do about the transgressor. I think that our justice system works in this way, and therefore when someone kills another person, they should receive the death penalty.

Your thoughts?

[Ben Goulbourn]

absalout truth
we canadians are fu!@$& pussies, and we abolished the death penalty, the last one was some guy that killed someone else, and he was hanged
but the death penalty is completely right, if you kill, you deserve death, it is that simple
no matter what anybody else says, somebody stupid and sadistic enough to kill, murder, destroy another living, breathing, human-being, who also has feelings, does not have a place in our society
and should be thrown off a cliff in a sack, or by another method, which ever one is more painfull

[Cookie Mobster]

Basicly what your saying starts an endless loop, if we as a society have the right to murder all our murders then we are in fact murders ourselves, are we to be killed as well? Capital punishment hasn't proven worthwhile in stopping future crimes and educating the publi. All it has done is releave the symptoms rather that distroying the source of the problem. On top of that it is barbaric and inhumane.

[Ben Goulbourn]

smckone, on Aug 26 2002, 05:47 PM, said:

Basicly what your saying starts an endless loop, if we as a society have the right to murder all our murders then we are in fact murders ourselves, are we to be killed as well? Capital punishment hasn't proven worthwhile in stopping future crimes and educating the publi. All it has done is releave the symptoms rather that distroying the source of the problem. On top of that it is barbaric and inhumane.

the people who enforce the law and bring justice upon others are not murderers, they ar public servants, and if they must kill somebody to ensure my safety, then so be it

[UTCalcs]

It's not circular. If I surrender my right to kill, then everyone else does. Just like the AntiBallistic Missile Treaty signed sometime in 1970s...We agreed not to use nukes. If we nuked someone, then the treaty is nulled and then all other nations who were involved in it would have the right to nuke us. It's basically representative, philosophically, of the Social Contract. And how is the death penalty barbaric and inhumane? If it was your child, say, who was murdered, what would you want done to the killer?

[Ben Goulbourn]

canweunwrapthecalcs, on Aug 26 2002, 05:51 PM, said:

It's not circular.  If I surrender my right to kill, then everyone else does.  Just like the AntiBallistic Missile Treaty signed sometime in 1970s...We agreed not to use nukes.  If we nuked someone, then the treaty is nulled and then all other nations who were involved in it would have the right to nuke us.  It's basically representative, philosophically, of the Social Contract.  And how is the death penalty barbaric and inhumane?  If it was your child, say, who was murdered, what would you want done to the killer?

very very deep...
that was a great reply

[JainDough]

for or against?

against! against! a thousand times against! boy oh boy, capitol punishment solves nothing. "an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind" my friends, if you kill someone for killing a person, all you have on your hands are 2 dead people. sure, some may feel more at ease knowing a killer is no longer alive, but we as a society have no authority to take away a life just to make ourselves feel good.

And who are we to say that the court system has sentenced the right person? even if you ar3e for "justice" you have to ask yourself what if they're wrong? that most certainly isnt justice.

Capitol punishment doesnt discourage crimes any more than jail does. prisons are already ineffectual, we can't start killing off inmates for more space, but look at how crowded jails are, look at how backed up the court system is, something isn't working people, and the whole bloody mess needs to be reevaluated, sans capitol punishment in the mix.

[Cookie Mobster]

Alright aside from moral reasons look at the civil reasons. If a person is innocent on death row and they are killed is this murder? Killing someone lasts forever and there is no way to ensure that every death row inmate is fully juilty. If you're going to decide that someone is so evil that they deserve to die than you are making the same decision that a murder is.

Quote

If it was your child, say, who was murdered, what would you want done to the killer?

Vengance will not alevate any of the pain...

[UTCalcs]

Great it sounds like a humanitarian argument. Ok fine, but how would you feel if, God forbid, someone killed one of your family members? It's not ease of knowing a killer is no longer alive. It's closure for the victim's or victims' family/families. What if they're wrong? There are so many procedures before someone is executed that most executions are fairly accurate.

[Ben Goulbourn]

JainDough, on Aug 26 2002, 05:58 PM, said:

for or against?

against! against! a thousand times against! boy oh boy, capitol punishment solves nothing. "an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind" my friends, if you kill someone for killing a person, all you have on your hands are 2 dead people. sure, some may feel more at ease knowing a killer is no longer alive, but we as a society have no authority to take away a life just to make ourselves feel good.

And who are we to say that the court system has sentenced the right person? even if you ar3e for "justice" you have to ask yourself what if they're wrong? that most certainly isnt justice.

Capitol punishment doesnt discourage crimes any more than jail does. prisons are already ineffectual, we can't start killing off inmates for more space, but look at how crowded jails are, look at how backed up the court system is, something isn't working people, and the whole bloody mess needs to be reevaluated, sans capitol punishment in the mix.

wow
the prison population reached 6 million a few days ago

and as for "an eye for an eye leaves the world blind"
that is absaloutly true, but what can also be decieving is the saying
"looks can be decieving"
sure, who cares! that murderer looks like a nice man! lets let him out on the street, or maybe he can stay in prison and murder another inmate who is in jail for a month for stealing some soap?
you let this man back on the street he will do more damage than before
Jain, lets say that you had a child, who was murdered in cold blood while you watched, the man looms above the body of your motionless daughter with a bloody 13" knife, he snarles in the shadows as his teeth glisten
he throws the kinfe to the floor and runs away, leaving your poor daughter left to die in a sespool of her own blood and plasma
now let me ask you
does this man deserve to live?
does he deserve to get 3 meals a day?
does he deserve to read books and lounge in prison?
does he deserve to go outside for astetics training and play basketball?
all the while earning money?
(3 cents a day is still money)
while what are you left with?
your depressed, 3 months later you impale your head upon a large spike at the annual fair, and because of emotional damage and scaring, now two people are dead.
its so sad when things like this happen.
but who cares right?
at least hes not walking the streets

[jaredigital]

capital punishment is good for no one. it is the legal sanctioning of murder by the government. not a good idea.

even if there is no question that a person has killed another, how is death the answer? what if it was your brother, convicted of murder? or your father or mother? certainly you would be apalled at their actions, but would you want someone to sentence them to death? violence begets violence, and just because a "court system" hands down a "sentence", that doesn't make it right. it's still one person or body of people killing another human being.

and ben, we are not talking about the conditions of prison life. you make it sound like prison is a cakewalk, but it's not. prison is NOT a hotel with 3 meals a day and plenty of athletic activities.

[Ben Goulbourn]

read what i put in my last post
then youll understand

[jaredigital]

i did read your last post. your perception of prison is totally inaccurate. maximum security prisons are vicious places full of rape, killing, and abuse by guards.

[Ben Goulbourn]

jaredigital, on Aug 26 2002, 06:11 PM, said:

i did read your last post. your perception of prison is totally inaccurate. maximum security prisons are vicious places full of rape, killing, and abuse by guards.

i bet you've had first-hand experience
but back to seriousness
hes still living
that is completely wrong
hes still eating?
yes
your sitting at home crying about your lost one
hes still breathing?
yes
your stitting at home contemplating suicide

this can not be allowed to happen

[Cookie Mobster]

Ben Goulbourn, on Aug 26 2002, 03:09 PM, said:

read what i put in my last post
then youll understand

So killing the guy, will ease the pain you will go on living a normal life, forget about your daughter, have a good time at the fair? Jared said it best with "violence begot voilence," heeling is something that you have to acheve internally and killing the murder isn't going to give you satisfaction.