[skyhawk133]

I know a couple of our members have gotten their pink slips, but I'm wondering what everyone else is seeing in terms of slow downs in the development world. How are companies doing with their IT departments? Lots of new projects? Hiring new people? Or are you guys feeling the pressure?


Do you think certain industries are more stable for programmers? (i.e. government, medical, insurance, etc.)

[Mikhail]

Hmm, I'd say yeah as far as I see yearly salaries dropped a bit, the place where I work for it is minimum of 25 and Hour for anyone beginner no degree yet. However their IT dept is huge few projects are going on, some people who have been working there for about 3-5 years get around 60-75 USD and hour for 8 hour day, I however work remotely on their catalog and come down to the office twice a month, to fill in my hours, I work 6 hours. However I think that 25 would be a good wage for people without degree like me (ex students), Most of the companies I've seen hiring are either huge firms, and anything that is marketing/sales.

[KYA]

Great question! Looking forward to other responses as I'll be out of school in a year or so

[Programmist]

I can't speak for other languages, but I see no shortage of Java jobs in my area. If you like contracting, you have 4+ years experience, and you don't suck, you can make boatloads of money right now. You just have to know what you are worth and what you want. There are also plenty of direct-hire jobs that pay very well, too, but they are not quite as plentiful as the contract jobs. However, he direct-hire positions tend to be a bit more stable. It's hard to say if there are any industries that are better. I see jobs popping up in the telecom sector, defense sector, media and entertainment, banking (yes, really), insurance, airlines, etc. I also see increased outsourcing to India, Mexico, and South America. Although many companies are now outsourcing only supplemental development, some of them are actually outsourcing entire teams. It's difficult to tell what types of jobs are easily outsourced, but generally the higher your rank, the more education you have and the more you use that education in your job, the less likely you are to be outsourced. But the are no guarantees.

[spearfish]

Interesting. My parents are screaming at me that all computer scientists will be outsourced to India.

But I think it'll probably only be the lame ones.

Besides, I am really looking to do something like network / system administration. Being the go-to guy when something breaks. How's the market for that?

[Programmist]

spearfish, on 12 May, 2008 - 06:47 AM, said:

Interesting. My parents are screaming at me that all computer scientists will be outsourced to India.

But I think it'll probably only be the lame ones.

Besides, I am really looking to do something like network / system administration. Being the go-to guy when something breaks. How's the market for that?

Many jobs with "administration" in the title can often be done remotely. If it can be done remotely, it can be done from India (or South America, etc). The computer scientists are not all going to be outsourced because there will always (well, for a long long time) be a need to people who can solve problems and write efficient algorithms.

[DillonSalsman]

Question:
I've been learning Java for over a year.
Does that count to the said "4+ years of experience"?
I don't get how you are *actually* supposed to start earning money with Java besides selling your own product.
I find it likely that nobody wants to hire somebody who has never actually *worked* with Java before.
Being almost 16 and going to College next year where I want to major in Computer Science and minor in Mathematics and Health Care, I want to know that Java *IS* going to get me 30+k a year after 2+ years of college, and how to go about getting a job with Java.

[spearfish]

Programmist said:

Many jobs with "administration" in the title can often be done remotely.

I'm talking about, for one example, what a web hosting company would need. To take it further, let's look at this job

Description said:

We need somebody who can easily get along with a small team of other admins and interface with support personnel on day-to-day issues. You MUST be able to solve problems quickly (and dirtily if need be!) and most critically, not be too annoying, especially in high-stress situations. Above all else, no egos please!

As a member of the admin team, your mission will be to keep our large (and growing) server farm of (debian) linux machines up and happy! This means about equal parts hardware and software work, and about equal parts dealing with problems that already exist and taking steps to attempt to head off problems that are just threatening to exist. It also means equal parts coffee and sleeping pills (for after you do a graveyard shift, not for killing yourself, sheesh!).

Although I'm not banking my life on a job with DreamHost and this position, that looks like the kind of thing I'd like to do (In fact, they're having some system problems right now).

Is this the kind of thing you were referring to, or something else?

[skaoth]

Quote

I've been learning Java for over a year.
Does that count to the said "4+ years of experience"?

1 != 4 so no that does not count. Generally
when jobs are looking for experience it means
professional experience. Remember though that most companies
are looking for the "Best" candidate, some will settle for
college graduates.

However, 4 years of college in a CS program does not equal
4 years of professional experience. I don't think its a 1-1 correlation

[CalumJR]

As this relates to the economy, is this just in the US? Or does anybody know if the same is happening in the UK? I'm hoping to become a programmer / software engineer when I graduate university, so this is obviously a major concern for me

[Programmist]

spearfish, on 12 May, 2008 - 10:06 AM, said:

Programmist said:

Many jobs with "administration" in the title can often be done remotely.

I'm talking about, for one example, what a web hosting company would need. To take it further, let's look at this job
Is this the kind of thing you were referring to, or something else?

Except for the hardware support yeah. It could be that there will be a need for someone to physically be there to change a bad disk or to pull tapes for off-site storage. But much of the monitoring for these types of jobs can be done remotely (Big Brother, etc). I don't see these types of jobs existing too far into the future, but I cold be wrong.

DillonSalsman, on 12 May, 2008 - 09:12 AM, said:

Question:
I've been learning Java for over a year.
Does that count to the said "4+ years of experience"?
I don't get how you are *actually* supposed to start earning money with Java besides selling your own product.
I find it likely that nobody wants to hire somebody who has never actually *worked* with Java before.
Being almost 16 and going to College next year where I want to major in Computer Science and minor in Mathematics and Health Care, I want to know that Java *IS* going to get me 30+k a year after 2+ years of college, and how to go about getting a job with Java.

The only experience that companies care about is professional (on the job) experience. Unless, of course, your non-profession experience involves a non-trivial project. Non-trivial means something that is beyond academic quality. If you have none, then I recommend that you look into paid, part time internships. They don't pay well ($12 - $16 per hour in this area), but it will give you the experience you need to grow into a less junior position that will pay more appropriately. Also, if you are aiming for a $30K per year job then I would say "aim higher." A good Java developer with 3+ years of experience in this area can make an $70K - $100K per year salary (or $40-$60 per hour if contract).

Also, Skaoth is right that a degree is not important to all companies, but it can open doors that would otherwise be closed to you.

This post has been edited by Programmist: 12 May 2008 - 03:37 PM

[spearfish]

So, I'm at a point where I have a lot of doors open to me. What would you suggest I look into?

[Programmist]

spearfish, on 12 May, 2008 - 03:58 PM, said:

So, I'm at a point where I have a lot of doors open to me. What would you suggest I look into?

What do you mean "open doors?" I was using that phrase to refer to jobs. What I was getting at is that when you have a degree there are some jobs that will be available to you that others will probably never hear about because they will be disqualified without ever being contacted.

[KYA]

I think he means he has the ability to to choose his next steps in whatever hes talking about, like education choices i imagine

[Programmist]

Obviously not knowing you or you situation makes specific advice difficult. Plus, remember that free advice is free for a reason. But the general advice I would give is to find a university with a good CS program and get a B.S. degree. make sure the university that has an internship program, so that you can get some experience while getting your B.S. A year of actual experience coupled with the degree will put you ahead of the average grad. If the school has a good graduate program, I would get a M.S. in (a specialization of) computer science. If not, find a university with a good program.

That's what I would do. But that's me. Talk to an undergraduate advisor at a university. Or if the CS program has career advisors, even better. Get an idea of what jobs are out there and what you really like to do before deciding on a degree. You never know what you might end up doing. I have a friend who thought the CS program at his university sucked so he dropped it and got a degree in math. He's currently working for a start-up in San Francisco, as software engineer.