[mensahero]

Searching for better codes or another way to do stuff, IMO is ok.. Why insist your method if there are better methods out there.. But that's not copy/paste.. its just gathering IDEA's that you could possibly implement in your own code.. or finding another better approach rather than using yours..


What I dislike are those who JUST copy/paste codes directly without even trying to understand the code.. and the WORST part is.. they will post it here and say "I HAVE A CODE AND IT's NOT WORKING" then show you a code that is not used in the right way..

IMO.. if you do copy/paste for a valid reason.. like lack of time to code your own.. instead of just copy/pasting it... its better if the code is ANALYZED first or better yet understood..

if people don't actually have any passion for programming.. then sense of accomplishment doesn't really matter to them..

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When did programming ever become 'cool'? tongue.gif

In my location.. programmers are COOL NERD PEOPLE.. but still there cool.. lmao..

This post has been edited by mensahero: 08 June 2008 - 01:27 AM

[n3mesis]

mensahero, on 8 Jun, 2008 - 01:19 AM, said:

What I dislike are those who JUST copy/paste codes directly without even trying to understand the code.. and the WORST part is.. they will post it here and say "I HAVE A CODE AND IT's NOT WORKING" then show you a code that is not used in the right way..

I think that this is the worst group of "pseudo-coders"..
The feeling of completing something on your own is priceless. Don't miss to feel it!!
It's nothing to do with high grades and such. Only the experience you gain through this "trip" is quite much!!

[NickDMax]

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Searching for better codes or another way to do stuff, IMO is ok.. Why insist your method if there are better methods out there.. But that's not copy/paste..

When I was learning to program I didn't have the internet to search -- that not to say that I didn't look at other peoples code. I copied programs out of magazines and out of books. I don't think there is anything wrong with learning from other peoples code. Thats almost the whole point of this forum!

I don't see anything wrong with copying and pasting in little snippets of code that you find. On occasion even if you don't understand it. Example there is a wonderful little bit of code for calculating 1/sqrt(x) which is used over and over in 3D libraries -- there is also a neat article that tries to track down the original author. People had been using this code over and over because it is a gem and truly 5 beautiful lines of code.

Its not the looking for code, or even copy/paste that bothers me.

I am arrogant. I consider my self an artist. A craftsman. I take pride in the programs that I write. I LOVE TO CODE! I get a kick out of it. I love solving problems.

Too bad that software development is a business and will seek the path of least resistance.

This post has been edited by NickDMax: 08 June 2008 - 09:31 AM

[Mikhail]

We have some of these people in my school's IT classes, last time time for the final essay of the year, I saw a few people with exact same essay + copied code but it was the same, and guess what all of them failed the class, the main reason for that is our teacher is not an idiot, has over 20 years programming experience, knows most of the coding sites so...after he finished grading the essays he told almost everyone I am disappointed in this work and you, after that he said most of you here will be like failures, This is such as simple program I asked you to create and you had to steal someone work, and actually what he wanted us to do was create a program that counts how many characters/letters are in a word. So pretty much anyone who cheats at that steals code will fail in the IT.

Sure I don't care if you use my code as long as it is open source or i gave you permission to use but it should still retain author's name and other information.

And if you ask me how I do my code I usually think what I want it to do, write down the ideas, design a diagram, after that it is simple pseudocode on paper, after that I usually write it into real code I can either do that in a compiler/ide or paper this is not even hard if you can do it in an IDE you can do it on a paper, if you make a mistake you can always correct it, when using IDE. Anyone agree with me?

[The Architect 2.0]

i think the issue over using others' code is whether or not it becomes a PART of your program or it BECOMES your program. the former is perfectly fine and is required for quickly-made(relatively speaking), effective programs(no need to go reinvent the wheel). the latter is just plagiarism.

[Tom9729]

I write a lot of code on paper.

Like Mikhail said, you'll probably catch any problems when you're typing it in. Not much of the code I write on paper will compile without any changes, but the changes are usually relatively simple.

Long car trips, if you don't get sick and aren't the one driving, are a great time to get some good ol` pen and paper coding done.

[JBrace1990]

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If we preach "don't reinvent the wheel" over and over to our aspiring developers are we perpetuating this thinking?

I don't think so. Reinventing the wheel is a waste of time, as long as one knows the Theory of operations, there's no need to completely remake it.

I'm an Electronics Major right now, and if I need to use a Transformer or a Coil, I don't go and make one from scratch, I just buy/use the part I need. It's the same with Coding, why rewrite everything and remake it if you understand the operation behind it?

[1lacca]

NickDMax, on 7 Jun, 2008 - 10:07 PM, said:

In a professional capacity I actually don't mind the idea of going out and looking at similar code and using it -- in a way this is a big part of the open source revolution. I have no intention of ever writing another routine to read in a bitmap (I want to write a routine that reads in jpeg but that is just because I never have and I want to).

I'd draw a line here: looking for similar code might not be a good thing, however using reliable libraries is engineering.
(Alright, getting code snippets is alright if you have experience, and you see it's quality is great - or you are willing to put it into shape-, but I've seen a couple of times developers just copy&paste something into their code without error checking/exception handling, because it looked-like working well )

[Fullchaos]

Just speaking from personal experience I can say that from the stand point of a beginner or amateur, code can be difficult. When I first started learning Java, my first programming language, I had a really hard time understanding all the different things that were going on. For instance, declaring a variable, while simple, can be made so much more complex depending on terminology. I needed arrays explained to me as more or less virtual mailboxs where code would be stored like a box number.

It then becomes harder when you're learning a new language at times. Sometimes the language isn't a bad transition because it behaves visually in a similar manner. Java and C++ are prime examples of this in my mind. Meanwhile, while I'm trying to understand asp.net right now, it's still hard for me, because I don't fully understand the syntax.

So seeing the syntax written out and explained line by line (at least in my case) can be really helpful to understanding how code works.

[bizzehdee]

NickDMax, on 7 Jun, 2008 - 12:19 AM, said:

Many times in the forums we see people who admit to only a smittering of programming experience asking for source code for very complex problems/programs.

One poster I can recall was looking to simulate a multi-thread management routine but was totally out of his/her league. Since we did not offer any code, this poster went out and got some *somewhere* and asked for help fitting it to their assignment. All in all I would call this cheating...

My questions are:

Is this common thinking for the pool of tomorrows developers?

Is this standard in the job market? (I know one major news organization whose IT department worked this way)

If we preach "don't reinvent the wheel" over and over to our aspiring developers are we perpetuating this thinking?

At my university there was a problem with the CS department's students getting a little too heavy handed with the cut and paste when writing research papers. It seems that this idea that all we have to do is find a working example and tweak it a little to fit the current model seems to be spilling over into research papers as well.

the thing that i am seeing more and more often now is that people claim to know PHP, MySQL, ASP.NET (C#/VB.NET), C++, C#... but when it actualy comes to it, they know hello world, or they know OF the language.. and with someone else writing a piece of code for them in a forum such as this, they claim to KNOW the language.
these people are usualy found out pretty quickly in the industry now.. the only way people like this survive is when they know how to talk the talk, but can make it look like they can walk the walk. these are the sort of people who kill small companys by over charging them for work, and then doing a bad job at it. and getting away with it.
i have had experiance of this myself at 2 different companys, 1 went under because of incompitent management and bad hiring decisions, the other simply fired the idiot after my pointing out he had absolutly no idea what he was doing.

as a note: i think that people should be made to go and look how to solve a problem themselfs, if we just give them the answer then they will never learn how to solve the problem themselfs.

[WolfCoder]

Sneblot, on 7 Jun, 2008 - 11:01 AM, said:

I have also met alot of people who are doing courses they dont like because their parents either did it or they want them to do it and wont let them do anything else. My mum was slightly like that (she wanted me to become a refridgeration engineer) but I went into web and animation work insted. HAHAHAHAHA

But sometimes could it be that people who start coding dont know how hard somthing there trying to do actualy is? I know I have tried somethings which would be classed as to advanced for a beginner.

I am interested in learning the details of refrigeration so that I could put together a system that cools my computer, but that's about it. My dream system has to have a cool completely clear case (the wall in the back will be made out of a thick plate of insulated material and fans will remove the heat off of the radiator like a heat sink, that might work but I need to find out how to get the heat away) made out of a sturdy material but is insulated to keep the cold inside and the heat out.. I'm thinking of somehow making it out of glass with a insulated gas inside (argon or whatever is used). Another issue would be that it has to be dry inside to otherwise frost will form inside (like if you leave the freezer door open for too long repeatedly the stuff inside grows this layer of ice>_< )

To keep myself from mindlessly using code, I re-write the code to my style so that I can walk myself through it and understand why it can do what it does instead of drop and glue it to my project. I only drop and glue code I've written myself and would like not to write it all over again.

This post has been edited by WolfCoder: 11 June 2008 - 11:13 AM

[Quizton]

Hello,

I am kinda new to this forum and I understand both sides of the fence as a fully working hit and run with code is not a good thing most of the time, but I think alot of these posts also originate from someone with no real schooling in these subjects.

I learned some vb over winter about 5 or 6 years back and built a pretty nice business program all thru helpfull people who would help me fix things I got hung up on(vbforums). Really never fully grasped what all was going on under the hood cause it all worked well so not much trial and error.

I have learned alot with C# and stuff thru books, screencasts, many many tutorials, loads of trial and error. And believe I got at least a month or two before I test for real certificates

But the main thing is that folks around here who help break things down for beginners, and help them along, eventually he can progress to being quite apt on most tasks needed for a decent job that will feed his family.

Of course those with the best knowledge will be running the show but he could at least perform his job not really to re-invent the wheel but more keep it spinning until those who do.

Thanks for reading and If you liked it dude I could use a rep point lol !

[BenignDesign]

A few things, since you are very new here:

1. Asking for rep usually yields the opposite result.
2. Check dates before replying to threads in the "Related Topics" beta at the bottom of the page - this one is from 2008.
3. Necro'ing threads usually does not end with a positive mark on your rep either.

Just FYI.

Aside from that, welcome to DIC! We're always glad to acquire new and active members.

[modi123_1]

*ring ring* Hi, 2008? What's happening?

Let's watch some of those last post dates.. I mean this has been inactive since 11 June 2008 - 01:05 P!

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Thanks for reading and If you liked it dude I could use a rep point lol !

Begging for rep - it's unbecoming.

Well poop.. someone scooped me on the chiding.

[BenignDesign]