Debate Chamber: Can Anyone Be An Artist?

i own paints, therefore i am an artist?

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23 Replies - 2013 Views - Last Post: 16 November 2002 - 11:56 AM

#16 Quik  Icon User is offline

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Re: Debate Chamber: Can Anyone Be An Artist?

Posted 15 November 2002 - 01:32 PM

klewlis, on Nov 15 2002, 12:07 PM, said:

And yes, I am saying that I have serious doubts about "web developers" who can't hand-code. But my biggest problem is with the ones who create a website or two with Front Page and then try to sell themselves as Web Designers. :P

I use dreamweaver, not frontpage, but on this regards its the same topic. 98% of the time I 'code html' using dreameaver. I can't code HTML by hand, because I dont want to. It's a waste of time. Sure I picked up some books when I first started out on HTML, but now the last thing on my mind is to code in notepad.

I sell myself as a Web Designer. YOu got a problem with me? ;)
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#17 klewlis  Icon User is offline

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Re: Debate Chamber: Can Anyone Be An Artist?

Posted 15 November 2002 - 01:54 PM

Quik, on Nov 15 2002, 03:32 PM, said:

klewlis, on Nov 15 2002, 12:07 PM, said:

And yes, I am saying that I have serious doubts about "web developers" who can't hand-code. But my biggest problem is with the ones who create a website or two with Front Page and then try to sell themselves as Web Designers. :P

I use dreamweaver, not frontpage, but on this regards its the same topic. 98% of the time I 'code html' using dreameaver. I can't code HTML by hand, because I dont want to. It's a waste of time. Sure I picked up some books when I first started out on HTML, but now the last thing on my mind is to code in notepad.

I sell myself as a Web Designer. YOu got a problem with me? ;)

(Sorry Jared, I'm about to get further off your topic, but I'll get back on at the bottom)

Quik:
It's an issue of quality. I work closely with people who are great designers but *only* designers, and so they do all the development with Dreamweaver. I am consistently frustrated with the poor quality of the code that is produced by Dreamweaver... everything from an overabundance of tables to lack of standards compliance to just plain messy, impossible to read sources. I can't stand it, especially when they then hand it to me and say, "can you fix such and such?" and I have to wade through the mess. And they don't care because "it looks good and it works". What they don't understand is that the quality of the code *matters*. It matters to search engines, to standards compliance, to file sizes (seriously, I could cut Dreamweaver code by at least 2/3 by doing it properly...), etc.

If quality front and back doesn't matter to you, then sure, hand coding is a waste of time. But if you strive for excellence in ALL aspects of your work, it makes a huge difference. And, by the way, if you do it properly it takes no longer than fiddling with Dreamweaver.

Ok back to topic:

While I do agree that art is highly personal, it is also highly cultural, and each culture has its own standards of what is "good art" and what is not. So I guess if people are buying it, for whatever reason, then it's acceptable as art. On the other hand, I think that in general OUR culture would not consider the example you gave to be "good art", simply because it's not original, doesn't say anything, and took very little effort. You can't tell me that he poured his soul into those paintings...or that he had an intended message to convey... :)
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#18 Quik  Icon User is offline

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Re: Debate Chamber: Can Anyone Be An Artist?

Posted 15 November 2002 - 02:27 PM

klewlis, on Nov 15 2002, 04:54 PM, said:

I think that in general OUR culture would not consider the example you gave to be "good art", simply because it's not original, doesn't say anything, and took very little effort. You can't tell me that he poured his soul into those paintings...or that he had an intended message to convey... :)

Who says its not original? How is it not original? Who says it dosnt say anything? NOT TO YOU, but to the person who made it. Effort has nothing to do with art. Who says Art has to be complex? And I dont mean effort is pointless, but when its used to determine a better or worse peice, thats stupid.
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#19 The Neoracle  Icon User is offline

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Re: Debate Chamber: Can Anyone Be An Artist?

Posted 15 November 2002 - 02:32 PM

klewlis, on Nov 15 2002, 05:54 PM, said:

I think that in general OUR culture would not consider the example you gave to be "good art", simply because it's not original, doesn't say anything, and took very little effort.

Whoa, whoa whoa.

Ever heard of Joan Miro or Mark Rothko or Vincent Van Gogh?

Their art is all criticlly aclaimed to be modern master pieces and they don't say anything and the first 2 especially don't look like they took alot of effort. Nor do they seem to be "original". Are you denying 50 years of Art Criticism?


And who are you to say that he isn't communicating anything with those? Jared and I both were communicated to.
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#20 Quik  Icon User is offline

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Re: Debate Chamber: Can Anyone Be An Artist?

Posted 15 November 2002 - 02:35 PM

*nods* RDS< do you have a clan i can join? ;) I mean "squad" sounds like ya do.
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#21 objekt404  Icon User is offline

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Re: Debate Chamber: Can Anyone Be An Artist?

Posted 15 November 2002 - 06:33 PM

As far as Grahpic Design goes (not to repeat anyone, but...) all that matter is whether <sp?> it will sell. Look around you. Alot of the stuff out there is *CRAP*, but someone bought it. Does that make it good design?

Good quote from my jedi.master (20+yr photographer/GD):
Art vs. Graphic Design: One is for play, the other is for pay.
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#22 klewlis  Icon User is offline

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Re: Debate Chamber: Can Anyone Be An Artist?

Posted 16 November 2002 - 09:39 AM

RobotDeathSquad, on Nov 15 2002, 04:32 PM, said:

klewlis, on Nov 15 2002, 05:54 PM, said:

I think that in general OUR culture would not consider the example you gave to be "good art", simply because it's not original, doesn't say anything, and took very little effort.

Whoa, whoa whoa.

Ever heard of Joan Miro or Mark Rothko or Vincent Van Gogh?

Their art is all criticlly aclaimed to be modern master pieces and they don't say anything and the first 2 especially don't look like they took alot of effort. Nor do they seem to be "original". Are you denying 50 years of Art Criticism?


And who are you to say that he isn't communicating anything with those? Jared and I both were communicated to.

Read my paragraph again and note that I was speaking for the general public. Average Joe would say, "why did he wreck the pretty birdies?"

This is the whole reason artists are always feeling so unappreciated. :P
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#23 Quik  Icon User is offline

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Re: Debate Chamber: Can Anyone Be An Artist?

Posted 16 November 2002 - 10:52 AM

you said "simply because it's not original, doesn't say anything, and took very little effort."

not the general public.
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#24 klewlis  Icon User is offline

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Re: Debate Chamber: Can Anyone Be An Artist?

Posted 16 November 2002 - 11:56 AM

Quik, on Nov 16 2002, 12:52 PM, said:

you said "simply because it's not original, doesn't say anything, and took very little effort."

not the general public.

yeah read the first half of the sentence too :P
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