[Winstinology]

Well, if you don't already know it yet, you soon will. In the past 24 hours Russia has launched a full scale military invasion on the sovereign nation of Georgia. Apparently they have been amassing troops and armor at the border for a few months, but until now they were claiming that they were operating training exercises. Yesterday Georgian forces made the mistake of launching a small movement against peace keepers in the province of Southern Ossetia. Well, that was all it took. This was the small excuse Russia has been waiting for a while for. And oh, what a wee little coincidence that the invasion is taking place on the opening day of the 2008 Beijing World Olympics. Personally I don't think that there is any coincidence there. What better time to invade a small country such as Georgia than on the opening day of the Olympics. Everybody will be too busy, no one will want to deal with it because this is the one time we all get together and forget our differences and celebrate our diversity, not fight about it. Georgia's President is now calling upon his close NATO allies along with the support of the rest of the West including the United States. It troubles me to think about how something like this could escalate very quickly into a mess beyond our worst nightmares. Technically, when you think about it, this is a cliche time in history that superpowers like the U.S. and other western forces would step in. After all Georgia has had a battalion of troops in Iraq helping us with our war effort since the beginning. They helped us out, why shouldn't we help them now. Needless to say, I think that the World is just waiting for somebody to take the first plunge into the dark waters we have been in before, in which I think we must all inevetibly tread in again to solve the state of the worlds currently pretty well fuckered-up situation.

[KYA]

Europe needs to step up to the plate. Either they are with us or they are against us.

[BenignDesign]

This is the kind of discussion I prefer to avoid. The kind of news I prefer no knowledge of. Why? Because it all boils down to WWIII and the religious belief in the "End Times". I had this stuff crammed down my throat as a kid. And, quite frankly, the idea of it coming to fruition scares the living crap out of me.

I will now go back to the fluffy, pink bubble of a happy place I prefer to live in....

[Nykc]

Send Obama over - he wants to meet with all the terrorists & evil leaders, I mean he wants to make peace with the world.

Edit - oh wait I so need to go here for a minute. Why the fuck would Russia want anything to do with Georgia of all places, why not Louisiana? *ROFL

This post has been edited by Nykc: 08 August 2008 - 02:58 PM

[KYA]

No nation would be dumb enough to use tactical nuclear weapons in today's age of globalization. Terrorists might, but they are not nations.


edit: lol nykc--so true...

This post has been edited by KYA: 08 August 2008 - 02:57 PM

[biggles2008]

KYA, on 8 Aug, 2008 - 10:45 PM, said:

Europe needs to step up to the plate. Either they are with us or they are against us.

Against you?

I hope USA dont wage a full scale attack on Russia to defend their Allies as we all know what is to come, just like the cold war, fear of nuclear weapons!

I'm sorry to say this and i don't want to cause an argument but we didn't say that in WW II .

If the US stepped in and the UK there goes the neighborhood. War wont solve this only politics in my eyes and we all know politicians suck.

[Martyr2]

Here are some given facts that will dictate what happens with Russia/Georgia situation...

1) US will not help. Why? Because the US will only battle countries that can't truly fight back. Americans also know that if they go against a large country that has some power there are going to be mass casualties. You will never see the US go into a conflict with Russia to defend Georgia. You won't see the US step in to defend Tibet from China. You won't see the US go against any country with nukes.

2) Russia knows point number 1 above. They also know that no one else will step in. So this is going to be a "safe" full scale attack.

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Personally I don't think that there is any coincidence there. What better time to invade a small country such as Georgia than on the opening day of the Olympics. Everybody will be too busy, no one will want to deal with it because this is the one time we all get together and forget our differences and celebrate our diversity, not fight about it.

3) Not Mr Bushy poo, he sat down for lunch with the president of china and Putin and managed to A.) Insult China about their human rights AFTER agreeing not to politicize the games and B.) Then leaned over to Vladimir and told him to de-esculate the violence in Georgia. Gotta love bush, always on duty. He isn't going to let any old olympic games stop his fun in his last term.

I just want to add a little more info onto this story that gets very little attention. The war is against rebels in South Ossetia which is part of Georgia and the rebels have been doing raids across the border and on peace keepers for awhile now. So this isn't something just spur of the moment. It is very very similar to Israel attacking Palestine. Hamas launches grenade attacks into Israel for weeks and months and finally Israel drops a few bombs and it makes news. Same situation here. By the way South Ossetia only has about 70k people. Latest estimates say that roughly 1500 have been killed. That is quite a chunk out of the population but I guess Georgia had been warned to stop attacks on Russia and to use diplomacy. They didn't listen.

[capty99]

Winstinology, on 8 Aug, 2008 - 03:52 PM, said:

After all Georgia has had a battalion of troops in Iraq helping us with our war effort since the beginning. They helped us out, why shouldn't we help them now.

The American military has armed and equipped the Georgian forces. They are American trained, wearing American surplus gear, with American body armor.

pretty good article from wired on it :
http://blog.wired.co...s-military.html



From a purely operational readyness standpoint I don't think the US could help Georgia out on a large scale. We already are fighting two wars and are stretched to the brink militarily, they won't commit to a third.

[KYA]

Martyr2, on 9 Aug, 2008 - 04:40 PM, said:

1) US will not help. Why? Because the US will only battle countries that can't truly fight back.

That is not true, there are plenty of examples within the last 60 years.

edit: @ biggles,

I meant Europe needs to deal with issues in their "neighbor hood" and put that EU to good use.

This post has been edited by KYA: 09 August 2008 - 05:38 PM

[Martyr2]

Name one country, since the invention of the atomic bomb, that we have gone to war with that also had nuclear weapons. Name one country in the last 60 years that we fought who were even remotely close to American firepower and technology, not to mention has even 50% of america's population?

What vietnam and korea? First Iraq war? Libya, Lebenon, Cuba, a handful of african countries who can't even feed their people (even though these were mostly conflicts none a full scale war). Why not take on a country like France? I mean it has only 64 million people. Oh wait they have nukes too. You will never see American fight France. France knows it, which is why they tell the US off all the time.

Don't get me wrong, the US has a lot of resources and fights for what they think is right, but when it comes to world affairs they are out for themselves just like any other country.

America never been in a war with any country that has nukes and they have not fought any country with even 50% of America's population (that being roughly 150 million). So it is not going to go to war with a country that has nukes and also has 142 million people. Same reason it will never go to war with China who also has nukes and over a billion people.

The last "serious" war that America was in was WWII.

Edit: They will of course supply the underdog with weapons and technology in hopes they will break away and if not, well they made some money. They even did this in WWII if you remember. They supplied both sides of fighting nations with weapons until Japan bombed pearl harbor.

This post has been edited by Martyr2: 09 August 2008 - 05:45 PM

[Moonbat]

Georgia has a sizeable military troop presence in Iraq, but as Martyr2 said, Russia can fight back. America may help out the Georgians with gear and such to repay their troops in Iraq, but we won't be sending any of our troops there. At most, we'll give a nice diplomatic slap-on-the-wrist to Russia.

[KYA]

OK, as long as you clarify--since WW2 (Neat tidbit--America only faced 20% or so of the German military power). Korea and Vietnam are also good examples. The people (and their respective supporters, China and the USSR) could and did fight back.

People get way too hung up over atom bombs. Globalization of the world's economy will prevent the use of such weaponry. When economies are joined at the hip, people don't take a week off to fight a war.

edited for typos

This post has been edited by KYA: 09 August 2008 - 05:46 PM

[Martyr2]

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OK, as long as you clarify--since WW2 (Neat tidbit--America only faced 20% or so of the German military power). Korea and Vietnam are also good examples. The people (and their respective supporters, China and the USSR) could and did fight back.

But remember that the US was dragged into the war by Japan. We were fighting both the Japanese and Germans. Russia supported the invasion of Poland but then after Hitler burned Russia they jumped on the Allies side so we never really fought the Russians. You better believe that in another full scale war like that, America will always fight with the numbers. Wars are always a numbers game.

Quote

People get way too hung up over atom bombs. Globalization of the world's economy will prevent the use of such weaponry. When economies are joined at the hip, people don't take a week off to fight a war.

Actually people get hung up over atomic bombs because economy will not prevent it, only self preservation prevents it. When a nation with nukes eventually gets to the point where they feel it is a hopeless battle and their people are suffering enough and they are beyond saving they can always push the button.

People get nervous for countries like Iran to get nukes, because not only extremists getting their hands on them, but also they are countries so poor and down in the dumps that they are hanging on by a thread of hope and are closer to hitting the button.

You won't want a poor country with nukes. With half their population dying of starvation, why not threat to use nukes to get some food? If you don't get food, you will die either way.

Just my two cents.

[KYA]

I agree. This turned out to be a great, pleasant discussion. We should get kudos.

[nirvanarupali]

Why UN will not step in? Is this because Russia has a permanent seat in the UN security council? The UN Security Council is suppose to be the "Police of the Word", and Geneva is the "World Court".

When Iraq invaded Kuwait, UN has stepped in. If that is a clear "invasion" Russia invade Georgia, then its time to call the Police of the world.

Aside from nukes, other things people will afraid of is, biological warfare.


It says: In war the first casualty is innocence.