What do our non US brothers and sisters think about our Candidates

I'm just curious

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#1 Reverand Dave  Icon User is offline

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What do our non US brothers and sisters think about our Candidates

Posted 06 September 2008 - 05:57 AM

As a citizen of the US, and being completely inundated on a daily basis with Politics I know where I stand. What I am most curious about is what do people around the world think about our candidates for president. Who do you think would be a better president and why? I'm soliciting opinions from primarily non-us residents, although if you have something constructive to add as a us citizen, please add your comments as well...

This post has been edited by Reverand Dave: 06 September 2008 - 05:58 AM

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#2 KYA  Icon User is offline

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Re: What do our non US brothers and sisters think about our Candidates

Posted 06 September 2008 - 08:05 AM

This thread is doomed from the start and I'll tell you why. Non US residents see, on a daily basis, misconception, false information, and bias coming from all news sources when discussing the US. Rarely will you get an honest or even candid opinion that isn't just some trash the person is regurgitating from a show he/she watched.

Truth be told, unless they have the ability to vote in November, their opinion is worthless; unless you seek to gain insight into how people in other countries view our political process, in which case I refer you to paragraph one of this post.
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#3 Reverand Dave  Icon User is offline

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Re: What do our non US brothers and sisters think about our Candidates

Posted 06 September 2008 - 08:13 AM

I'm just curious to see what they think, I'm not trying to change my mind or anyone else's mind.
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#4 RodgerB  Icon User is offline

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Re: What do our non US brothers and sisters think about our Candidates

Posted 07 September 2008 - 12:47 AM

View PostKYA, on 7 Sep, 2008 - 02:05 AM, said:

This thread is doomed from the start and I'll tell you why. Non US residents see, on a daily basis, misconception, false information, and bias coming from all news sources when discussing the US. Rarely will you get an honest or even candid opinion that isn't just some trash the person is regurgitating from a show he/she watched.

Truth be told, unless they have the ability to vote in November, their opinion is worthless; unless you seek to gain insight into how people in other countries view our political process, in which case I refer you to paragraph one of this post.

tissue?
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#5 Andora  Icon User is offline

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Re: What do our non US brothers and sisters think about our Candidates

Posted 07 September 2008 - 01:46 AM

I've had similar problems being in the US. Turns out the bias of reporters is far superior to any state sponsored propaganda.

</rant> anyhow, check out this site: http://www.russiatoday.com They have a very fresh perspective, however the truth is somewhere in the middle.

This post has been edited by Andora: 07 September 2008 - 01:52 AM

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#6 baavgai  Icon User is offline

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Re: What do our non US brothers and sisters think about our Candidates

Posted 07 September 2008 - 02:34 AM

View PostKYA, on 6 Sep, 2008 - 11:05 AM, said:

Non US residents see, on a daily basis, misconception, false information, and bias coming from all news sources when discussing the US. Rarely will you get an honest or even candid opinion that isn't just some trash the person is regurgitating from a show he/she watched.


This differs from a standard US media feed how? If you assert that all news source are bias, how can you possibly believe that any aren't?

I find how the rest of the world views the US enlightening. If most US citizens had any inkling of how the we present to the world, they'd probably be appalled. "World news" in the US is a joke. In other countries it's far more comprehensive. And yes, international news talks about the US a lot. Being intimately involved in something is the very definition of bias. The most unbiased opinion can only be found from an impartial observer.

While saying the rest of the world doesn't matter is good reflection of the US mindset,I don't think it's particularly helpful.
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#7 RedSonja  Icon User is offline

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Re: What do our non US brothers and sisters think about our Candidates

Posted 07 September 2008 - 02:36 AM

I try not to think about them at all. The constant media coverage of an election I can't vote in just makes me wonder what they are trying to distract us from.

The good thing this time around: the candidates are not identical, you can actually tell them apart.
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#8 KYA  Icon User is offline

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Re: What do our non US brothers and sisters think about our Candidates

Posted 07 September 2008 - 07:34 AM

View Postbaavgai, on 7 Sep, 2008 - 02:34 AM, said:

View PostKYA, on 6 Sep, 2008 - 11:05 AM, said:

Non US residents see, on a daily basis, misconception, false information, and bias coming from all news sources when discussing the US. Rarely will you get an honest or even candid opinion that isn't just some trash the person is regurgitating from a show he/she watched.


This differs from a standard US media feed how? If you assert that all news source are bias, how can you possibly believe that any aren't?

I find how the rest of the world views the US enlightening. If most US citizens had any inkling of how the we present to the world, they'd probably be appalled. "World news" in the US is a joke. In other countries it's far more comprehensive. And yes, international news talks about the US a lot. Being intimately involved in something is the very definition of bias. The most unbiased opinion can only be found from an impartial observer.

While saying the rest of the world doesn't matter is good reflection of the US mindset,I don't think it's particularly helpful.



I never made that assertion. Foreigners get the same dose of crap we do. However we can see "what is really going" whereas, they cannot. However the US isn't held in contempt by the entire world and if we are, their loss.

@Rodger

Do you have anything meaningful to contribute? Ever?
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#9 Amadeus  Icon User is offline

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Re: What do our non US brothers and sisters think about our Candidates

Posted 07 September 2008 - 11:32 AM

KYA, you're always so close to actual knowledge, but your insularity and rigidity make it hard to close the deal. What gives you the idea that some one who sees exactly the same news feeds you do, transacts business with the same companies you do, even spends a great deal of time in the country, would not be fully aware of the political situation in the US?

I'd be willing to bet that there are at least 10 non American members on this site alone who have a better grasp of the true motivations and reasoning behind US policy than most US citizens, including yourself. To candidly state that the opinion of non US residents is worthless pretty much invalidates your own worth. I believe you really mean that the person's opinion is worthless to you (which is fine - only you should decide which opinions to consider).

The US is not held in contempt around the world - everybody has their own opinion. Some like the US (I do), some don't. Those that don't may have valid reasons, or they may be based on contrived bullcrap.
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#10 KYA  Icon User is offline

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Re: What do our non US brothers and sisters think about our Candidates

Posted 07 September 2008 - 01:33 PM

It's worthless in so far as their influence on the elections with their personal vote. I'll quote myself to avoid any misconstrued ideas:

Quote

Truth be told, unless they have the ability to vote in November, their opinion is worthless; unless you seek to gain insight into how people in other countries view our political process, in which case I refer you to paragraph one of this post.


Being aware of the political situation is not the same as knowing what is going on. If all of your information comes from the media, then you are seriously misinformed.

Quote

I'd be willing to bet that there are at least 10 non American members on this site alone who have a better grasp of the true motivations and reasoning behind US policy than most US citizens, including yourself.


I sincerely doubt that, but I would love to see someone prove this.

Quote

To candidly state that the opinion of non US residents is worthless pretty much invalidates your own worth.


How does this make any sense? If they are not American citizens, they cannot vote, and therefore their opinion on the candidates, etc... is worthless. Especially (read above) if their opinions are formed on the news originating from the US.

Quote

I believe you really mean that the person's opinion is worthless to you (which is fine - only you should decide which opinions to consider).


Good job making me the bad guy...again. I'll listen to someone if they want to say something, but why should I base my views and actions off of someone who (again read above) is possibly misinformed and bias? Oh no! The [insert country here] hate Bush. Ok, so now that [insert country here] may or may not hate Bush (or my country) I should start hating Bush (or my country)?

Quote

The US is not held in contempt around the world - everybody has their own opinion. Some like the US (I do), some don't. Those that don't may have valid reasons, or they may be based on contrived bullcrap.


Which is what I said in my original post and at least once in this one. Allow me to say this in layman's terms so that there is no confusion:

Take what you hear, read, and see, with a grain of salt. What Joe Smitt the rag man thinks of the "political process" I could give two shits less about. Should I base my thought process on another individual's thought process? No.

This is where people tread dangerous water. Instead of gathering information and making decisions on their own worth, they blindly listen to or follow the media or other people, which is why I said :

Quote

This thread is doomed from the start and I'll tell you why.


Now I'm the asshole for calling it like it is. Typical.
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#11 RodgerB  Icon User is offline

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Re: What do our non US brothers and sisters think about our Candidates

Posted 07 September 2008 - 02:37 PM

The bottom line is, that you don't personally follow the candidates around, you don't hide behind their chairs in meetings, so you know nothing better then everyone else. Last time I checked international countries have access to the internet. People can make their own judgment of bias media sources; I personally think it's very bias thinking that every media source available to non-us citizens is bias.

So in the reality, you had absolutely nothing to contribute to this thread, but my previous response was just as meaningful as yours. How could you possibly be more informed then non-us citizens, when you get your information from the same source?

Don't bite the hand that feeds you now.

This post has been edited by RodgerB: 07 September 2008 - 02:39 PM

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#12 skyhawk133  Icon User is offline

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Re: What do our non US brothers and sisters think about our Candidates

Posted 07 September 2008 - 02:39 PM

He's Obama's brotha from another motha. They're tight like whoa.
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#13 supersloth  Icon User is offline

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Re: What do our non US brothers and sisters think about our Candidates

Posted 07 September 2008 - 03:39 PM

i've actually learned a lot about my country and the world by discussing it with some dutch friends who have been in town the last couple of months. understanding other people can reinforce your beliefs or change them for the better.

but i guess straight up ignoring other people based on retarded ethnocentrism has it's mertis.
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#14 KYA  Icon User is offline

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Re: What do our non US brothers and sisters think about our Candidates

Posted 07 September 2008 - 03:41 PM

View PostRodgerB, on 7 Sep, 2008 - 02:37 PM, said:

The bottom line is, that you don't personally follow the candidates around, you don't hide behind their chairs in meetings, so you know nothing better then everyone else. Last time I checked international countries have access to the internet. People can make their own judgment of bias media sources; I personally think it's very bias thinking that every media source available to non-us citizens is bias.

So in the reality, you had absolutely nothing to contribute to this thread, but my previous response was just as meaningful as yours. How could you possibly be more informed then non-us citizens, when you get your information from the same source?

Don't bite the hand that feeds you now.


Did I say I did?

I'LL REPEAT IN CAPS AND BOLD SINCE YOU LACK THE ABILITY TO READ:

UNLESS SAID PERSON HAS THE ABILITY TO VOTE, THEIR OPINION ON THE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES FOR THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA MEANS NOTHING, ASIDE FROM PERHAPS A PLEASANT CONVERSATION


(Their opinion on U.S. politics as a whole might be worth listening to, but that's not what we are discussing)

And I do not get my information from the same sources you do. Your judgment amounts to nothing because you do not have a say (are you registered to vote in America?). Float your opinion around if you want, you still haven't said a thing in this entire thread.

The internet is not necessarily a good place to glean factual, unbiased information.

I vote for the disbandment of this sub-forum because no one, aside from maybe Amadeus, wants to have an actual conversation about anything. Even if you think I'm wrong, post something intelligent.

View Postsupersloth, on 7 Sep, 2008 - 03:39 PM, said:

i've actually learned a lot about my country and the world by discussing it with some dutch friends who have been in town the last couple of months. understanding other people can reinforce your beliefs or change them for the better.

but i guess straight up ignoring other people based on retarded ethnocentrism has it's mertis.


Maybe. But please explain why you would go out of your way to glean information from the Dutch? Its not ethnocentrism, its common sense. Do they have an opinion? Yes. Can they share it? Yes. Will I alter my existence of being because they are from another country? No. Can we talk about polotics? Sure. Why not? You all spin this so hard, you're worse then O'Reily.

I have more world/culture experience then most of you in this thread. Please raise you hand if you have lived in Germany? South Korea? What other countries have you been to? Visited? China, Poland, Italy, Czech Republic, England, Netherlands, France? What states have you lived in or been to? OK then. Let's tone down on the name calling.

edit: By always looking to others for their opinion you'll fall into the trap of doing what others say instead of what you think you should do. that is really all i'm trying to say. People got all excited in America because Germans were excited about Obama when he was in Berlin...case in point.

edited to include sloth's recent hate post

This post has been edited by KYA: 07 September 2008 - 03:59 PM

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#15 supersloth  Icon User is offline

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Re: What do our non US brothers and sisters think about our Candidates

Posted 07 September 2008 - 04:34 PM

i didn't go out of my way to find dutch people to talk politics with, i have met some dutch people who are just nice people and i enjoy their company, and in talking to them i have learned their viewpoints and reinforced some of my viewpoints and changed some of them thru this discourse. that exchange is what the good reverand had in mind in creating this topic. but how dare he be willing to expand his worldview m i rite?
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