The lisbon treaty II

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19 Replies - 735 Views - Last Post: 28 November 2008 - 11:52 PM

#1 ಠ_ಠ  Icon User is offline

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The lisbon treaty II

Posted 26 November 2008 - 11:04 AM

Hope im not crossing a line with this post but i have to ask.

I was just wondering if people from the U.S, Canada, etc or even Europe know what it's all about.

All of Europe have been jumping on board this "new treaty" without giving the people a chance to vote.

The only county that gets a vote is ireland because "if the Treaty is ratified it would transfer powers from the Irish Constitution to the EU and Irish law requires that any changes to the Constitution must be subject to a referendum."
(Thanks to england ) :^:

I know that if this pass's it would mean:

* Increase the militarization of the EU
* More privatization
* It puts at risk our automatic right to a referendum on future changes to existing treaties.
* It gives the EU too much power and reduces our ability to stop decisions that are not in Ireland's interests.

Point: The main reason the Celtic tiger came into play was because of our low corporation taxs, so if we put them up to the norm in the E.U, its a bad idea.

The best part is that the irish voted no. But they want to come back and make us vote again (Democracy eh)

etc etc angry [/rant]. ;)

Just wondering what kind of info do the Americans and rest of the E.U get.

We get these.
No:
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=mgRLs4_1KI0
Yes:
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=G3BdhE2mbu4
I cant find the real ads , but these are similar.

This post has been edited by ಠ_ಠ: 26 November 2008 - 11:12 AM


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#2 NeoTifa  Icon User is offline

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Re: The lisbon treaty II

Posted 26 November 2008 - 11:12 AM

I seriously read this as "The Lesbian Treaty II". I was slightly confused as to how I missed the first one.
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#3 ಠ_ಠ  Icon User is offline

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Re: The lisbon treaty II

Posted 26 November 2008 - 11:17 AM

View PostNeoTifa, on 26 Nov, 2008 - 10:12 AM, said:

I seriously read this as "The Lesbian Treaty II". I was slightly confused as to how I missed the first one.


No, that was in 2004 when they tried to take over Germany and France.
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#4 Amadeus  Icon User is offline

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Re: The lisbon treaty II

Posted 26 November 2008 - 11:18 AM

The ads themselves are not broadcast on mainstream North American Television, but anyone who keeps an eye on international affairs is well aware of it.

While it does represent some changes in the current power model, it does not actually prevent Ireland from stopping agendas not in it's interest, it encourages Ireland (and the other members) to work within the EU model and view the Union as a unit, as opposed to member states each with their own agenda (pipe dream, i know, but that's what it is meant to encourage).

Among some of (what I view any) as positive components are the legalization of the human rights charter (although this can often lead to a grey area), and the fact that it recognizes the possibility of an EU member state to withdraw from the EU should they so choose.

In any case, this treaty cannot come into force without a positive result from an Irish referendum...democracy in action. :)
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#5 supersloth  Icon User is online

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Re: The lisbon treaty II

Posted 26 November 2008 - 11:19 AM

look, all of your countries are becoming more and more like states. that's pretty neat i guess.
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#6 ಠ_ಠ  Icon User is offline

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Re: The lisbon treaty II

Posted 26 November 2008 - 11:56 AM

View PostAmadeus, on 26 Nov, 2008 - 10:18 AM, said:

The ads themselves are not broadcast on mainstream North American Television, but anyone who keeps an eye on international affairs is well aware of it.

While it does represent some changes in the current power model, it does not actually prevent Ireland from stopping agendas not in it's interest, it encourages Ireland (and the other members) to work within the EU model and view the Union as a unit, as opposed to member states each with their own agenda (pipe dream, i know, but that's what it is meant to encourage).

Among some of (what I view any) as positive components are the legalization of the human rights charter (although this can often lead to a grey area), and the fact that it recognizes the possibility of an EU member state to withdraw from the EU should they so choose.

In any case, this treaty cannot come into force without a positive result from an Irish referendum...democracy in action. :)


"100% of all EU laws are proposed by the unelected EU Commission - not the parliament"
-Link facts and figures page.

"Changes to voting in Europe would reduce Irelands voting power due to our small population."
-link

We said no the first time, now there telling us to vote again , not very democratic. ;)

" it does not actually prevent Ireland from stopping agendas not in it's interest"

"45% - of the voting power to make EU law would be held by the 4 largest nations."
And that's not counting all the other larger states who have larger population than ireland.

We CAN veto but that's in our leaders hands we dont get a vote and since the green party , Fianna Fáil etc never stand up the the EU before were not counting that they will in the future.

I think the main point is that it takes power away from the irish to control ireland.

If they dont respect our no vote now , how much will they respect our other votes when they has us by the ba**s.

5:20 is the best part now the english like the irish. :D
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

But i dont want to get in a fight with an admin so i wont go to far into it ;).
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#7 Amadeus  Icon User is offline

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Re: The lisbon treaty II

Posted 26 November 2008 - 12:03 PM

The fact that I'm an admin has nothing to do with this conversation...if you have something to say, say it. this conversation has nothing to do with site policies or transgressions, and only a coward would use his abilities as an admin to take action against an individual because he lost an argument that has nothing to do with the sphere of his control. I'm presenting my view, you are presenting yours...if I am incorrect, so be it. won't be the first time. :)

My only point was that the ratification of this treaty lies within the hands of the Irish people...if you don't agree with it, don't vote for it. If your leaders choose not to use a veto power, that is not the fault of the EU, or the treaty, is it? your leaders are elected....
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#8 ಠ_ಠ  Icon User is offline

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Re: The lisbon treaty II

Posted 26 November 2008 - 12:17 PM

View PostAmadeus, on 26 Nov, 2008 - 11:03 AM, said:

The fact that I'm an admin has nothing to do with this conversation...if you have something to say, say it. this conversation has nothing to do with site policies or transgressions, and only a coward would use his abilities as an admin to take action against an individual because he lost an argument that has nothing to do with the sphere of his control. I'm presenting my view, you are presenting yours...if I am incorrect, so be it. won't be the first time. :)

My only point was that the ratification of this treaty lies within the hands of the Irish people...if you don't agree with it, don't vote for it. If your leaders choose not to use a veto power, that is not the fault of the EU, or the treaty, is it? your leaders are elected....


I was only kidding i know you wouldn't do anything. :)

"leaders are elected"
Sadly :D
we get a 60% voting turnout mostly because there "Blood votes".

"My only point was that the ratification of this treaty lies within the hands of the Irish people"
Funny enough theirs one more country that is standing up. The Czech Pm is standing up to the whole E.U.
Now theirs a man or woman, i haven't see him/her yet.
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#9 KYA  Icon User is offline

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Re: The lisbon treaty II

Posted 26 November 2008 - 12:20 PM

Hmmm. Hopefully the EU gets its shit together in the next decade or two.

United States of Europe. USE! USE!

That brings a smile to my face. :)
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#10 Amadeus  Icon User is offline

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Re: The lisbon treaty II

Posted 26 November 2008 - 12:28 PM

The model will be slightly different...individual countries still represent voting blocks, as opposed to all components under one leader. The head if the EU will be a far more figurative title than President of the US.
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#11 WolfCoder  Icon User is offline

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Re: The lisbon treaty II

Posted 26 November 2008 - 12:42 PM

But will they do just as little?
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#12 KYA  Icon User is offline

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Re: The lisbon treaty II

Posted 26 November 2008 - 12:43 PM

About as much as the Queen of England does.
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#13 gabehabe  Icon User is offline

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Re: The lisbon treaty II

Posted 26 November 2008 - 01:10 PM

Her butler saw her nude, once. True story! He walked in on her. 'Twas in the papers, and all sorts.
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#14 Bort  Icon User is offline

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Re: The lisbon treaty II

Posted 27 November 2008 - 07:17 AM

Hey Kya, be nice about our Queen. She has a very hard life, sitting there watching the idiot Brown ruin our country.
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#15 KYA  Icon User is offline

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Re: The lisbon treaty II

Posted 27 November 2008 - 12:17 PM

Bort, your avatar makes me smile :)
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