shooting for prog job could use advice

This is really important to me, do u have a minute?

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23 Replies - 2467 Views - Last Post: 07 December 2008 - 09:56 PM

#1 badjava  Icon User is offline

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shooting for prog job could use advice

Posted 05 December 2008 - 06:12 AM

There is some background to this but one basic question I am curious what you think; do u think its a mistake to learn more than one programming language at the same time?

For the background part:
I'm newly laid off and after over 15 years in pc and network support I decided it's time to do what ever it takes to make the switch I've always dreamed of. I'm giving myself 6 to 9 months to break in to at the minimum an entry level or even internship level programming position.

With that short of a time frame to work with my current plan is to grind through the best books I can get my hands on with my current choices of C++, C# and Java as my goal.

reasoning:
I got my hands on a slick (semi?) smart phone and have the OS opened up now for a test platform and I want to pursue Java especially for the mobile app market, C# for the OS business area saturation, and C++ was a good starting point to get restarted based on my past C classes that I did really well in.

As I'm working more of this out in my head right now I'm thinking it might be good to pick two, after finishing up my current C++ class. Focusing on C# and Java for the next few months and blasting my way through as far as I can get on two (which seem like solid choices to me at the moment) would probably see me a lot further ahead than trying to keep all 3 rolling.

So if you've made it this far, any advice you have beyond your opinion of learning more than one language at a time would be appreciated in the utmost. I'm begging here for anyone with an opinion or advice to share. Without getting too much more personal or sappy, looking at the state of the economy and job prospects, and having a family with a couple of kids - things are kind of scary out there and I think your opinions will help with decisions that will see me further ahead in the end.

This post has been edited by badjava: 05 December 2008 - 09:09 AM


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Replies To: shooting for prog job could use advice

#2 ValPaliy  Icon User is offline

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Re: shooting for prog job could use advice

Posted 05 December 2008 - 06:23 AM

I would advice C# and J#.

This post has been edited by ValPaliy: 05 December 2008 - 06:23 AM

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#3 badjava  Icon User is offline

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Re: shooting for prog job could use advice

Posted 05 December 2008 - 06:26 AM

View PostValPaliy, on 5 Dec, 2008 - 05:23 AM, said:

I would advice C# and J#.


Really J# over straight Java?

Found this on the microsoft website (just checking because I dont know ANYthing about J#):

Retirement of J# language and Java Language Conversion Assistant from future versions of Visual Studio

Since customers have told us that the existing J# feature set largely meets their needs and usage of J# is declining, Microsoft is retiring the Visual J# product and Java Language Conversion Assistant tool to better allocate resources for other customer requirements. The J# language and JLCA tool will not be available in future versions of Visual Studio. To preserve existing customer investments in J#, Microsoft will continue to support the J# and JLCA technology that shipped with Visual Studio 2005 through to 2015 as per our product life-cycle strategy.

This post has been edited by badjava: 05 December 2008 - 06:44 AM

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#4 badjava  Icon User is offline

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Re: shooting for prog job could use advice

Posted 05 December 2008 - 09:11 AM

just one little bump plz forgive i never do this but i want to catch all u peeps that headed out to the wide world this morning and mighta missed this.
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#5 bflosabre91  Icon User is offline

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Re: shooting for prog job could use advice

Posted 05 December 2008 - 12:55 PM

my personal belief is learning c++ is a little overkill at this point. unless your goals is to end up writing system driver or operating system stuff then dont waste your time. im not saying c++ is garbage or anything like that, but most business environments(which is the type of programming i assume you would want to get into) today wont have anything to do with c++. Unless its doing maintenance on old apps. But .NET is here to stay and there are plenty of C# and VB.net jobs out there. so i would advise to become an expert in c# and/or vb.net. not that c++ sucks, but it just doesnt make sense for a company to develop in c++ as it will take twice as long to develop the same app as opposed to developing in vb or c#. im sure there still are c++ jobs though
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#6 badjava  Icon User is offline

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Re: shooting for prog job could use advice

Posted 05 December 2008 - 01:25 PM

View Postbflosabre91, on 5 Dec, 2008 - 11:55 AM, said:

my personal belief is learning c++ is a little overkill at this point. unless your goals is to end up writing system driver or operating system stuff then dont waste your time. im not saying c++ is garbage or anything like that, but most business environments(which is the type of programming i assume you would want to get into) today wont have anything to do with c++. Unless its doing maintenance on old apps. But .NET is here to stay and there are plenty of C# and VB.net jobs out there. so i would advise to become an expert in c# and/or vb.net. not that c++ sucks, but it just doesnt make sense for a company to develop in c++ as it will take twice as long to develop the same app as opposed to developing in vb or c#. im sure there still are c++ jobs though


TY bflo, that's two votes for C# or .net in general which is the direction I was leaning.

I'm relocating back to MI soon and using Monster as a job market test, the job postings comparing C# and Java weigh almost 2 to 1 towards Java which I would never have guessed and VB or just .net searches outweight straight C# about the same. I haven't gone through and hand checked yet tho to see how many of those are jobs which list both which would skew my simple test pretty far.

And yes you're correct about business programming, I'm thinking this will be the best way to get my foot in the door for a paying job and get experience. After that I could see what I can come up with on the side maybe for a mobile app or see where my coding feets lead me.

I'm feeling pretty good about focusing right down solely on C# for my .net choice and language of choice in general and I'm hoping it will continue to grow and penetrate in to more of the VB .net areas by the time I'm putting the resume out next year.

Thank you for your input guys I really appreciate your help as I get this worked out.

I do also really want to work my way in to the area of mobile programming and Java looks like the way to go there, ugh! Must stay focused...

P.S. and I think you hit it right on btw with C++ being overkill, I *DONT* want to end up writing system driver stuff!

This post has been edited by badjava: 05 December 2008 - 01:26 PM

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#7 KYA  Icon User is offline

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Re: shooting for prog job could use advice

Posted 05 December 2008 - 02:04 PM

Whoever suggested J# needs to be shot in the face.

C#/.NET and java.

(I'm a C++ devotee, but most jobs are in the above nowadays).
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#8 Martyr2  Icon User is offline

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Re: shooting for prog job could use advice

Posted 05 December 2008 - 02:22 PM

As so elegantly put by KYA J# is a waste of time and is pretty much dead. First I just want to say you have three great solid choices in C++, C# and Java. Those will get you fabulous jobs and are all in demand.

Now there is two ways to approach this. Learning speed and what is in most demand first. For learning if you have done C then jump to C++. That is going to offer you a solid understanding of many languages including C# and Java. Personally I would then go to Java next because it easier to build on from C++ because you don't have the .NET framework to deal with yet. Lastly you can do C# and even another language in the .NET family at the same time as C#.

The most demand first, C++ is going to drop a bit... C# and Java are your bigger industry ones that are going to land jobs. C# is being used heavily in microsoft environments and ASP.NET in particular and Java is great in the mobile and other platforms areas. Out of those two I would recommend Java first and then C# second. C# is still really growing and maturing but it is maturing fast!

But as I always recommend, go with whatever languages you feel the most comfortable with. You can get jobs easily in programming with all three. So go with what is easiest for you to learn and in a time crunch it will be the language you learn the most out of. You can always expand into the others even after you get your entry level position.

I know all three and love each one as my own children. They are equals but obviously one child is going to do something better than another in a certain situation. Either way they all have their value.

:)

This post has been edited by Martyr2: 05 December 2008 - 02:24 PM

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#9 KYA  Icon User is offline

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Re: shooting for prog job could use advice

Posted 05 December 2008 - 02:29 PM

Subtlety is not one of my strong suits.
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#10 no2pencil  Icon User is online

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Re: shooting for prog job could use advice

Posted 05 December 2008 - 02:47 PM

View Postbflosabre91, on 5 Dec, 2008 - 01:55 PM, said:

my personal belief is learning c++ is a little overkill at this point...

I'm not sure where you people work, but in the real world, C/C++ is very much alive.

I know that schools & Universities like to tell students that this isn't true, but if we all stuck with what we already know, then they wouldn't make any money either.

I'm not saying more companies use C/C++ than C#, but it's been my experience that C/C++ is very much alive.

BadJava : My general advice is this. If you have to ask what language you should learn, then you are in the wrong industry. Learn what you want & run with it, doing what you enjoy. Don't learn something just to make money, because then you won't succeed at it. Do what you enjoy, & you'll be a step ahead of almost everyone else that you work with.
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#11 KYA  Icon User is offline

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Re: shooting for prog job could use advice

Posted 05 December 2008 - 03:03 PM

It would be safe to say that C++ has more specialized areas. If you're good at it, it really doesn't matter what it is :)
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#12 JBabineau  Icon User is offline

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Re: shooting for prog job could use advice

Posted 05 December 2008 - 03:08 PM

One of the main things to learn is the logic no so much the actual syntax but the logic behind the problems. That's just my personal opinion. If you learn the logic for one the syntax can be learned easily, as for languages C++, C# or java are all good tools go with what comfortable with you.
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#13 bflosabre91  Icon User is offline

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Re: shooting for prog job could use advice

Posted 05 December 2008 - 03:15 PM

View Postno2pencil, on 5 Dec, 2008 - 01:47 PM, said:

View Postbflosabre91, on 5 Dec, 2008 - 01:55 PM, said:

my personal belief is learning c++ is a little overkill at this point...

I'm not sure where you people work, but in the real world, C/C++ is very much alive.

I know that schools & Universities like to tell students that this isn't true, but if we all stuck with what we already know, then they wouldn't make any money either.

I'm not saying more companies use C/C++ than C#, but it's been my experience that C/C++ is very much alive.

BadJava : My general advice is this. If you have to ask what language you should learn, then you are in the wrong industry. Learn what you want & run with it, doing what you enjoy. Don't learn something just to make money, because then you won't succeed at it. Do what you enjoy, & you'll be a step ahead of almost everyone else that you work with.



i never said c++ isnt used. calling it overkill and calling it dead would be too different things. overkill meaning c# will be just as good in most business applications. so in a business environment, it would be easier to learn c# because you can develop apps faster, and learn the language faster.
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#14 Programmist  Icon User is offline

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Re: shooting for prog job could use advice

Posted 05 December 2008 - 04:12 PM

I gave up recommending languages to people. It's really pointless because there are so many evaluations and comparisons of differing languages on the internet (and on this forum) that it's rarely worth the time to reiterate them. But, I'm sure there are plenty of people here who are willing to repeat them for you. :)

My advice - outside of whatever languages you "learn" in 6-9 months - is to start building a portfolio. If you don't have a CS degree and you don't have industry experience then you are going to have to differentiate yourself from the thronging masses of unemployed developers and fresh college grads vying for the same positions. Make sure your portfolio is easy to read and has screen captures where helpful. Also, keep your portfolio concise. If you need to elaborate, be ready to do so, but don't clutter the pages with too many words. Good luck.
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#15 badjava  Icon User is offline

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Re: shooting for prog job could use advice

Posted 06 December 2008 - 12:06 AM

View PostKYA, on 5 Dec, 2008 - 01:04 PM, said:

Whoever suggested J# needs to be shot in the face.


Ahah! ty KYA, I love it. :)
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